Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Gallahad on Mon Jun 16 2014, 12:14

My fellow Kenyans, we are at war.

We have to change our attitudes accordingly. Its not just a matter for the government and security forces but for every Kenyan citizen. These cowards live amongst us. We must take up the mantle. If you know,see, suspect anything or anyone it is our duty to ourselves and to our Country to report this to the nearest security person or organ.

We must not give space to this evil. We must not give opportunity for this evil to devour us.

We must put our minds and spirits into war mode.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sayaret matkal on Mon Jun 16 2014, 13:04

@Mchoraji thank you for the concurrence. @gallahad i agree with you but ultimately we need the boots n the hardware. (think North Korea, not the most appropriate example but no1 dares pull an iraq or libya on them.)tough talk n community policing is not enough.
How long would it have taken to airlift the sf unit based in mombasa to Mpeketoni? An hr n a half? Mayb 2 if you add tym to scrumble a chopper n gearing up on short notice. Even during pseudo-wartime we are yet to establish a capable Rapid response team to protect the homeland? The new barracks in westie is not enough...sm1 correct me if im wrong.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Guest on Mon Jun 16 2014, 13:40

deconstructor wrote:After what just happened in Lamu I think it might be good for Kenya and EAC to consider building a border wall along its border with Somalia and the whole EAC like this below





Apart from offering security; It might actually be able to pay for itself because if built it will instantly eliminate cross border smuggling and tax evasion and therefore increase revenue from custom duties
Also to counter the possibility of tunneling, adding buried motion detectors along the fence would be a good idea. They work both ways, detecting someone trying to climb over or dig under. And because a fence cannot be built along the coastline, maybe a maritime radar network

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  mchoraji on Mon Jun 16 2014, 14:19

Sayaret matkal wrote:How long would it have taken to airlift the sf unit based in mombasa to Mpeketoni? An hr n a half? Mayb 2 if you add tym to scrumble a chopper n gearing up on short notice. Even during pseudo-wartime we are yet to establish a capable Rapid response team to protect the homeland? The new barracks in westie is not enough...sm1 correct me if im wrong.

Also wondering what's the use of all that training of the SFs if they can't save the motherland when needed.Major Chirchir was tweeting on the issue within an hour after it began, meaning all the security agencies were aware.why wasn't something done?
The other day, all the major roads to the North, East & the coast were gazetted to be under the surveillance of the military to assist the police.Has this helped in any way......has it even commenced?
The other day 2 military personnel were killed in Lamu, was anything done to apprehend the perpetrators? Our security forces are letting us down & heads should roll







It's all good to show us what you're capable of......we however want to see the knowledge help us when we need that special help

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  PatriotKenyan on Mon Jun 16 2014, 15:53

Worrying times indeed, most would have thought that following Westgate, measures would have been put in place to have a quick response counter terrorist unit on 24 hour standby to respond to such attacks.  

5 hours to respond to such a brazen attack on our people is reckless and downright incompetent. The duty of any Security apparatus is to defend the homeland, yet it seems partisan politics, lack of accountability and self interest override that duty here in Kenya.

Despite the lack of a proper investigation in to Westgate in the public domain, I would have thought the Government would have quietly reviewed out Counter Terrorism Strategy and put the relevant structures in place to proactively mitigate such threats and if required, develop a clear and efficient means of responding to such attacks.

We may shun the West, but when it comes to the protection of their citizens, there is no compromise, Kenya should be looking to emulate that.

One question that I have and is truly leaving me perplexed is despite the fact that the  AU forces in Somalia is comprised of a number of countries, why is Kenya taking the brunt of the attacks?

I agree we should now think about building a strategic barrier across the border; our actions in Somalia will remain futile as long as we can be penetrated so easily.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  africaken on Mon Jun 16 2014, 17:24

mchoraji wrote:
Sayaret matkal wrote:How long would it have taken to airlift the sf unit based in mombasa to Mpeketoni? An hr n a half? Mayb 2 if you add tym to scrumble a chopper n gearing up on short notice. Even during pseudo-wartime we are yet to establish a capable Rapid response team to protect the homeland? The new barracks in westie is not enough...sm1 correct me if im wrong.

Also wondering what's the use of all that training of the SFs if they can't save the motherland when needed.Major Chirchir was tweeting on the issue within an hour after it began, meaning all the security agencies were aware.why wasn't something done?
The other day, all the major roads to the North, East & the coast were gazetted to be under the surveillance of the military to assist the police.Has this helped in any way......has it even commenced?
The other day 2 military personnel were killed in Lamu, was anything done to apprehend the perpetrators? Our security forces are letting us down & heads should roll







It's all good to show us what you're capable of......we however want to see the knowledge help us when we need that special help
another question we have a forward operation base at lamu which recently has frequently being used by our forces in somalia.why was any aircraft deployed to carry out even aerial surveillance or even be use to deploy soldiers station there ?

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  jasiri on Mon Jun 16 2014, 19:56

I think here is where all of you are reffered to the KDF Act in the constitution. You will know why SF units couldn‘t be deployed. Those are tier 1 assets and their rules are more stringent.

Instead of a wall why don‘t we just mine the border? Screw the conventions we‘ve signed and plant anti-personel mines along the border.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  proud kenyan on Mon Jun 16 2014, 20:35

jasiri wrote:I think here is where all of you are reffered to the KDF Act in the constitution. You will know why SF units couldn‘t be deployed. Those are tier 1 assets and their rules are more stringent.
A re-arrangement of the rules/law,hand the areas immediately next to the frontline to the military in collaboration with the hard boys from the GSU and the RDU to police that whole zone,with a sprinkle of civilian police to take care of the civilian populace.
Kwa wale wanaelewa kizungu ya the constitution: under what circumstances can the prezzie bypass the constitution and deploy the military without lawmaker's approval? IMHO he should take a leaf from moi's book and bypass the IG in some instances and get the real image of things on the ground from the county commissioners

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sierra Kilo on Mon Jun 16 2014, 20:59

jasiri wrote:Instead of a wall why don‘t we just mine the border? Screw the conventions we‘ve signed and plant anti-personel mines along the border.
This attack by all means does not bear the hallmarks of an AS operation. This was an attack perpetrated by local radicals in cahoots with a political leadership which has beef against the current regime. The Somali AS has no mileage to gain by butchering only members of a certain ethnic community in Kenya. The flow of arms and funding to these  local enemies needs to be unearthed soonest.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sayaret matkal on Mon Jun 16 2014, 21:21

Jasiri. Why dint the kdf act apply during the westgate attack? Base commanders just let loose their men(including rookies) on westgate in a knee–jerk response. Nwy im not saying the law should take a back seat in emergencies but for crying out loud,4 hours to deploy a response team?? That is too slow man. Sf or recce, thea cud av bn a better response. I agree that our heavily trained paratroopers n rangers n sf are tier 1 operators but what use are they if so many lives cn b snuffed out so casually.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sayaret matkal on Mon Jun 16 2014, 21:24

@jasiri we can cloth them in rdu ama gsu uniform who wud ever know? Aftr the hostiles have been eliminated n lives have been saved i doubt those poor chaps wud gv a hoot about who really did the job

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  PatriotKenyan on Mon Jun 16 2014, 23:35

jasiri wrote:I think here is where all of you are reffered to the KDF Act in the constitution. You will know why SF units couldn‘t be deployed. Those are tier 1 assets and their rules are more stringent.

Instead of a wall why don‘t we just mine the border? Screw the conventions we‘ve signed and plant anti-personel mines along the border.
Surely as the Commander In Chief, the President is able to hand over control to the Military should the situation arise. The UK has a squadron of the SAS on standby 24 hours a day, 365 days the year to respond to such attacks.

Furthermore, following the Mumbai incident, the UK Government conducted joint simulations between the elite Police Units and the SAS on how to conduct joint operations.

That to me demonstrates a security structure that is evolving to deal with the threats we face today, especially asymmetrical warfare.

The Westgate incident was a watershed moment as it showed how ill prepared we were despite having highly trained units both in the Military and the Police adept at handing such situations.

This incident seems to show that we are still ill prepared to mitigate and counter such threats which is an indictment of all the heads of the different Security Agencies and the Executive.

Exposing our weaknesses does nothing but invigorate and bolden both the terrorists and the magnitude of attacks; we really cant afford not to prioritize on Internal Security, this should really supersede the Political circus we are currently having to endure.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sayaret matkal on Tue Jun 17 2014, 07:13

Patriot. I bow in honour. Umeyasema yote.
RIP to all the victims. Im not sure whether sending kimaiyo home will do much good but we would defntly do with a better policy formulator (read cabinet secretary) that chef, no offence, should be heading up tourism or some obscure ministry, or rather one that doesnt directly involve a risk to Kenyan lives if things go wrong.Experience cannot be acquired at the price of Kenyan lives.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Kobooz on Tue Jun 17 2014, 10:56

Very unfortunate events. There are reports of fresh attacks last night. 10 more lives lost. Now thistime again witnesses allege a white man comanding the bandits. Is it an indication that the white lady who attempted to cross the border recently was on a reccon mission? There's a hidden hand in Kenya & Nigeria happenings. But frankly our sate of alertness is wanting. It is reaching a point where our neighbors can see that tumelemewa with Rwanda which used to look up to us now offering help! Just think of how we respond to non-security emergencies be it fire, accidents, riots etc. Our police stations barely have functional guard rooms at time llike this. We must start to behave like Israel otherwise the loss of life & economic decline is unacceptable

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Security Redress

Post  Mkenya on Tue Jun 17 2014, 11:41

Sayaret matkal wrote:Patriot. I bow in honour. Umeyasema yote.
RIP to all the victims. Im not sure whether sending kimaiyo home will do much good but we would defntly do with a better policy formulator (read cabinet secretary) that chef, no offence, should be heading up tourism or some obscure ministry, or rather one that doesnt directly involve a risk to Kenyan lives if things go wrong.Experience cannot be acquired at the price of Kenyan lives
RIP our fallen citizens and members of the uniformed service,but i remember reading on sunday midnight of surveillance planes been airborne so i figured then from MAB to mpeketoni about 2hrs flight would send them overhead the small theatre giving them eyes or even in less time if KDF was deploying from FOB mombasa or Manda.......... so is their something we are not been told Question 
Moving forward i think we need a QRF team on standby 24/7 with dedicated mobility e.g. 2 mil choppers on which 20 bad ass men can board plus motorbikes and ATVs within the shortest time and be deployed to any local theatre.
NIS too needs some more grey areas in the intelligence bill to allow them to operate more clandestine and covert ops within and outside our borders also let them execute their missions where possible on their own not having to rely info to NSC then ask IG to act.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  jasiri on Tue Jun 17 2014, 11:51

PatriotKenyan wrote:
jasiri wrote:I think here is where all of you are reffered to the KDF Act in the constitution. You will know why SF units couldn‘t be deployed. Those are tier 1 assets and their rules are more stringent.

Instead of a wall why don‘t we just mine the border? Screw the conventions we‘ve signed and plant anti-personel mines along the border.
Surely as the Commander In Chief, the President is able to hand over control to the Military should the situation arise. The UK has a squadron of the SAS on standby 24 hours a day, 365 days the year to respond to such attacks.

Furthermore, following the Mumbai incident, the UK Government conducted joint simulations between the elite Police Units and the SAS on how to conduct joint operations.

That to me demonstrates a security structure that is evolving to deal with the threats we face today, especially asymmetrical warfare.

The Westgate incident was a watershed moment as it showed how ill prepared we were despite having highly trained units both in the Military and the Police adept at handing such situations.

This incident seems to show that we are still ill prepared to mitigate and counter such threats which is an indictment of all the heads of the different Security Agencies and the Executive.

Exposing our weaknesses does nothing but invigorate and bolden both the terrorists and the magnitude of attacks; we really cant afford not to prioritize on Internal Security, this should really supersede the Political circus we are currently having to endure.
During The Troubles, the UK created enough flexibility in its laws to allow the participation of military forces in its internal affairs. As for India, the Black Cat commandos are mandated to conduct anti-terror ops. They are a civilian agency under the Indian Police Services. In Kenya if u ever try to dress military forces in civil defence garb then that is the beginning of the end for your government coz trust me, the opposition will not let you hear the end of it (rem the Metropolitan Command?).

What we need is a total re-structuring f the Police OrBat. The boys in blue 1st Must be re-trained, intensively. The G3 MUST be removed from their inventory of firearms, the largest caliber firearm they should have should be the MP5. they should be well kitted in BP vest and vehicles and taught to asses situations that they can handle and those they cant. Bullets should be at a premium, hii maneno ya guys shooting blindly just coz u can squeeze the trigger should not be seen again.
The A.P should be re-trained, re-equipped and re-deployed as an elite border guard unit. They should play second fiddle to the military only in times of war where borders have been designated military areas of operation. Within the A.P should be a crack Quick Response Force of the best trained in guerrilla warfare, interdiction and search and rescue/search and destroy operations. They should be able to deploy to any part of their AOR within 30 mins max. The AOR of the border guards (A.P) should be from the border to 100 km in land. Police stations will exist within that area as it is still Kenya but any incident that needs Heavy intervention should be delegated to the A.P. Ideally, they should have armoured vehicles at least STANAG Level 2.

The GSU should be re-constituted as an elite special police force tasked with heavy reinforcement of the A.P at borders, internal operations (e.g Disarmament exercises) and specialised urban warfare support (Westgate type). They will be better at everything, training, equipment, renumeration, housing etc. This new GSU should only accept the best proven personnel from the constituent civil defence organisations (KWS, KFS, Kenya Police, A.P etc). Hii upuzi ya having GSU officers in every rally or street demo should cease. A dedicated riot police force must be built for that kind of none sense. The GSU must be the closest thing to a military deployment the average citizen will ever see. Their very appearance should be enough to stop a fight degenerating into a battle. Things must be arranged in such a way that if the GSU fail and the military is called in, then its outright war.

Between the A.P and GSU, a reasonable number of medium-lift utility helicopters (say 8 Mil's -i'm itching to be asked how i arrived at this number) dedicated to supporting this para-military units should be allocated. Days before, i said that the MI-17's thePolice have should not be sold of but rather re-deployed to support roles. Infact, i said the issue of convoys driving to operation areas and arriving well after the massacre must be avoided by using the Mils. Mpeketoni response rubber stamped my observation.

All this however is useless without a robust intelligence back up. The NSI SHOULD NOT get involved in domestic intelligence gathering when we have a Directorate of Criminal Intelligence. Where the NSI gets involved, it should be strictly limited to an advisory role for both the President and the DCI. The DCI must invest in smart capable individuals and state of the art equipment. They should be who we point our fingers to when things go south. The NSI and KDF must be strictly external in their outlook and operations.

Gentlemen, any time a fighting force is used to police a populace in direct contrast to its training both morale and discipline fail. I am one of the few who believe the military must NEVER be used for internal policing duties, be it in support role or running the show. If we want a robust and sustainable security, we must invest in our civil defence forces.

Over to you gentlemen of the blog.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Batian on Tue Jun 17 2014, 12:02

Sayaret matkal wrote:Jasiri. Why dint the kdf act apply during the westgate attack? Base commanders just let loose their men(including rookies) on westgate in a knee–jerk response. Nwy im not saying the law should take a back seat in emergencies but for crying out loud,4 hours to deploy a response team?? That is too slow man. Sf or recce, thea cud av bn a better response. I agree that our heavily trained paratroopers n rangers n sf are tier 1 operators but what use are they if so many lives cn b snuffed out so casually.


for certain this is a delicate matter. I bet no one can defeat SF or reece on conventional warfare, the reality is the latter is either slow for a purpose because it is lacking adequate numbers for response or is poorly equipped, one year down the line despite the magnitude of attacks we continue to face we still see a reactive strategy employed by security team.  investing in intelligence is proving to be expensive affair for kenya. your are manning porous borders but maybe your enemy is probably using your airports, seaports and other entry ports.

 other men conducting the massacre were seen with army uniform..you cannot rule out divisions within our armed forces.why have crooked men in the army leasing weapons and uniforms. right now the dust has not settled, another attack has just happened same place, you may say that there are no military bases in mpeketoni. but mtongwe is less an hours flight. If this is the case let us assume we have a perrenial problem at hand and are heading the way pakistan and afghanistan

alshabaab attacks have been more of hit and run attacks at border posts, then all of a sudden they are able to conduct a massacre twice in less that 48 hours. it is not surprising the way internal security is handling the issue with passivity that any other enemy may take advantage of the situation.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  jasiri on Tue Jun 17 2014, 12:51

Batian wrote:
Sayaret matkal wrote:Jasiri. Why dint the kdf act apply during the westgate attack? Base commanders just let loose their men(including rookies) on westgate in a knee–jerk response. Nwy im not saying the law should take a back seat in emergencies but for crying out loud,4 hours to deploy a response team?? That is too slow man. Sf or recce, thea cud av bn a better response. I agree that our heavily trained paratroopers n rangers n sf are tier 1 operators but what use are they if so many lives cn b snuffed out so casually.


for certain this is a delicate matter. I bet no one can defeat SF or reece on conventional warfare, the reality is the latter is either slow for a purpose because it is lacking adequate numbers for response or is poorly equipped, one year down the line despite the magnitude of attacks we continue to face we still see a reactive strategy employed by security team.  investing in intelligence is proving to be expensive affair for kenya. your are manning porous borders but maybe your enemy is probably using your airports, seaports and other entry ports.

 other men conducting the massacre were seen with army uniform..you cannot rule out divisions within our armed forces.why have crooked men in the army leasing weapons and uniforms. right now the dust has not settled, another attack has just happened same place, you may say that there are no military bases in mpeketoni. but mtongwe is less an hours flight. If this is the case let us assume we have a perrenial problem at hand and are heading the way pakistan and afghanistan

alshabaab attacks have been more of hit and run attacks at border posts, then all of a sudden they are able to conduct a massacre twice in less that 48 hours. it is not surprising the way internal security is handling the issue with passivity that any other enemy may take advantage of the situation.
correction batian, they said military uniforms, not army uniforms. one does not mean the other.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  proud kenyan on Tue Jun 17 2014, 12:55

jasiri wrote:During The Troubles, the UK created enough flexibility in its laws to allow the participation of military forces in its internal affairs. As for India, the Black Cat commandos are mandated to conduct anti-terror ops. They are a civilian agency under the Indian Police Services. In Kenya if u ever try to dress military forces in civil defence garb then that is the beginning of the end for your government coz trust me, the opposition will not let you hear the end of it (rem the Metropolitan Command?).

What we need is a total re-structuring f the Police OrBat. The boys in blue 1st Must be re-trained, intensively. The G3 MUST be removed from their inventory of firearms, the largest caliber firearm they should have should be the MP5. they should be well kitted in BP vest and vehicles and taught to asses situations that they can handle and those they cant. Bullets should be at a premium, hii maneno ya guys shooting blindly just coz u can squeeze the trigger should not be seen again.
The A.P should be re-trained, re-equipped and re-deployed as an elite border guard unit. They should play second fiddle to the military only in times of war where borders have been designated military areas of operation. Within the A.P should be a crack Quick Response Force of the best trained in guerrilla warfare, interdiction and search and rescue/search and destroy operations. They should be able to deploy to any part of their AOR within 30 mins max. The AOR of the border guards (A.P) should be from the border to 100 km in land. Police stations will exist within that area as it is still Kenya but any incident that needs Heavy intervention should be delegated to the A.P. Ideally, they should have armoured vehicles at least STANAG Level 2.

The GSU should be re-constituted as an elite special police force tasked with heavy reinforcement of the A.P at borders, internal operations (e.g Disarmament exercises) and specialised urban warfare support (Westgate type). They will be better at everything, training, equipment, renumeration, housing etc. This new GSU should only accept the best proven personnel from the constituent civil defence organisations (KWS, KFS, Kenya Police, A.P etc). Hii upuzi ya having GSU officers in every rally or street demo should cease. A dedicated riot police force must be built for that kind of none sense. The GSU must be the closest thing to a military deployment the average citizen will ever see. Their very appearance should be enough to stop a fight degenerating into a battle. Things must be arranged in such a way that if the GSU fail and the military is called in, then its outright war.

Between the A.P and GSU, a reasonable number of medium-lift utility helicopters (say 8 Mil's -i'm itching to be asked how i arrived at this number) dedicated to supporting this para-military units should be allocated. Days before, i said that the MI-17's thePolice have should not be sold of but rather re-deployed to support roles. Infact, i said the issue of convoys driving to operation areas and arriving well after the massacre must be avoided by using the Mils. Mpeketoni response rubber stamped my observation.

All this however is useless without a robust intelligence back up. The NSI SHOULD NOT get involved in domestic intelligence gathering when we have a Directorate of Criminal Intelligence. Where the NSI gets involved, it should be strictly limited to an advisory role for both the President and the DCI. The DCI must invest in smart capable individuals and state of the art equipment. They should be who we point our fingers to when things go south. The NSI and KDF must be strictly external in their outlook and operations.

Gentlemen, any time a fighting force is used to police a populace in direct contrast to its training both morale and discipline fail. I am one of the few who believe the military must NEVER be used for internal policing duties, be it in support role or running the show. If we want a robust and sustainable security, we must invest in our civil defence forces.

Over to you gentlemen of the blog.
First things first: start with the necessary laws and policies. Have security be a no-go zone for any politician,so that any utterance outside the confines of the national assembly/senate lands you in prison. If there are any complaints,there is kavuludi's team. Grant the NIS the hand to do whatever it is they have to do to secure our country. I know this is overlooked, but look at this: they give a document to parliament to approve ,and it is shot down by a chorus of politicians and evil society, and this is a document prepared by a person who has carried out a thorough threat assessment of what kenya expects to face in the next few years going forward. If every operation is to be intelligence based, then a situation of deploying well in advance based on the estimated threat level would be a reality and more tenable,considering the resources to be used. I feel that the NIS should remain as is in relation to external and internal intelligence gathering to avoid a situation like that rumoured to have happened pre-9/11where no intel was passed to the FBI to follow forward with. The GSU should be an offshoot of itself, based on the following theory: Them having to share resources with other services(police and APs) may hinder their effective response time, assuming that sunday night's events were enabled further by the deployment of rotaries to carry the dignitaries as opposed to ferrying reinforcements to the area (unless for official business, here should be no VIP transport via security services air assets). Having a training camp/ops base for them in the area would also be a good idea,to aid in quicker response and to provide reinforcements to either garissa or mombasa if need arises. If they got four or five pumas(apparently the MI 117 is quite thirsty) i believe they would be ok.plus maybe a squadron of MD 500s for ops support and air cover. The aim here is to deter anyone intent on disturbing the peace,same way a club bouncer deters revellers from disturbing the peace.
I think the attackers played around with one important factor: the presence of manda bay in lamu. The blue uniforms thought they could get reinforcement from the military base, and when it did not arrive there was nothing they could do. Having the hard guys don Police/GSU/AP apparels would have taken the fight to the attackers, and any attempt at making a repeat attack would have greatly diminished due to their fear of being repealed with serious consequences.
A side note: Lamu is the gateway to the LAPSSET project. I think someone has decided to seriously undermine the project, thus the government should seriously consider beating down anyone who tries to interfere with that zone's security,even consider the deployment of tier 1 assets


Last edited by proud kenyan on Tue Jun 17 2014, 13:03; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Adding a few words)

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Gallahad on Tue Jun 17 2014, 13:08

Gentlemen, let us not forget that this evil doers have been telling us for the better part of the year that their strategy had changed and that they would bring the fight to us, to our country.

The country's security law needs amendment, I remember the Senate majority leader mentioning this some time back, hope this is still on course.

In a fight with the devil we cannot be seen to operate outside the law otherwise what will be the difference between us and the devil.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Batian on Tue Jun 17 2014, 13:39

jasiri wrote:
Batian wrote:
Sayaret matkal wrote:Jasiri. Why dint the kdf act apply during the westgate attack? Base commanders just let loose their men(including rookies) on westgate in a knee–jerk response. Nwy im not saying the law should take a back seat in emergencies but for crying out loud,4 hours to deploy a response team?? That is too slow man. Sf or recce, thea cud av bn a better response. I agree that our heavily trained paratroopers n rangers n sf are tier 1 operators but what use are they if so many lives cn b snuffed out so casually.


for certain this is a delicate matter. I bet no one can defeat SF or reece on conventional warfare, the reality is the latter is either slow for a purpose because it is lacking adequate numbers for response or is poorly equipped, one year down the line despite the magnitude of attacks we continue to face we still see a reactive strategy employed by security team.  investing in intelligence is proving to be expensive affair for kenya. your are manning porous borders but maybe your enemy is probably using your airports, seaports and other entry ports.

 other men conducting the massacre were seen with army uniform..you cannot rule out divisions within our armed forces.why have crooked men in the army leasing weapons and uniforms. right now the dust has not settled, another attack has just happened same place, you may say that there are no military bases in mpeketoni. but mtongwe is less an hours flight. If this is the case let us assume we have a perrenial problem at hand and are heading the way pakistan and afghanistan

alshabaab attacks have been more of hit and run attacks at border posts, then all of a sudden they are able to conduct a massacre twice in less that 48 hours. it is not surprising the way internal security is handling the issue with passivity that any other enemy may take advantage of the situation.
correction batian, they said military uniforms, not army uniforms. one does not mean the other.
ok i know saying army is being specific, but what this is indicating is that there are no resources on the ground for the police forces to use.


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sayaret matkal on Tue Jun 17 2014, 13:54

Interesting views @Jasiri. What are you doing posting this here and not passing it up to the brass? Oh wait protocol. They should have you advising the CIC on security sector reforms. But then again, that is just wishful thinking if guys like Lenku are still holding office.
Im not advocating for a military govt here man, far from it. All im saying is before the utumishi can clean up their act, the 'hardboys' as Patriot would like to call them, should step in covertly.
We cant keep screaming 'rule of law' as the impediment to safeguarding lives. My professors say the purpose of law is to serve the will of the people. And i assure you, without a shadow of doubt that the will of the mpeketoni victims was not to die while help was,dare i say, available.

@Gallahad desperate times...


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Batian on Tue Jun 17 2014, 14:55

Sayaret matkal wrote:Interesting views @Jasiri. What are you doing posting this here and not passing it up to the brass? Oh wait protocol. They should have you advising the CIC on security sector reforms. But then again, that is just wishful thinking if guys like Lenku are still holding office.
Im not advocating for a military govt here man, far from it. All im saying is before the utumishi can clean up their act, the 'hardboys' as Patriot would like to call them, should step in covertly.
We cant keep screaming 'rule of law' as the impediment to safeguarding lives. My professors say the purpose of law is to serve the will of the people. And i assure you, without a shadow of doubt that the will of the mpeketoni victims was not to die while help was,dare i say, available.

@Gallahad desperate times...

the only problem at hand as underscored by @patriotkenyan's statement is bureacracy and
the friction between the security agencies is rearing its ugly head.. popping up again! during
desperate times. Oh i was wrong, about mtongwe, there is a military base in lamu and rotary
assets can't be deployed 30 kms to where there is an actual event happening.
there is friction amongst our institutions, be it lawmakers versus the NIS et al. Mil vs Police agencies and it
has been around for quite a while @jasiri this is the weakpoint.

earlier in my posts i had talked of restructuring, but it was taken wrongly to suggest rolling of heads. The issue is maybe there is a poor system in place. of late the security agencies have shown to be incapable of predicting  security threats, that is why they need other institutions.  they cannot work in a vacuum and that is why they have to keek approval from senate..
kenyans are going to die at this rate if it takes copperation from lawmakers to approve NIS operations to protect the nation.

Way forward

a) There is still no formula on how the police can coordinate with the military to avert
percived or actual internal threats......reasoning is that there a is pending approval for
NIS from parliement to secure the country now and to the future.

b) creation of an institution to deal with the same means more money from the coffers,
 while a support sector like tourism is failing, other sectors are in danger. More to be directed towards intelligence
gathering and less on isntitutions which have been a channel for corruption .

c) part of the miltary budget to include NIS operation and must change from being partly civilian and gather intelligence directly as a military agency whether outside or within the borders.

d) We are not aware if this time NIS had alerted anyone of the attacks, if they had, it would have
 been easier to capture the organizers of the second attacks. we are also told by news agencies, KDF had been deployed. as patriot says it is indeed an insult to LApSSET, it is also insultive to the level of prepardeness of KDF to act on any type of aggression.

the questions about westgate?? are is there anything we are not being told?? where people ask why things are happening and for info, they become  levelled as politicians, watu wanakufa kama kuku, why should not they ask??


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  africaken on Tue Jun 17 2014, 15:18

the following is what a witness who had gone to mpeketoni to his farm he had just bought and wanted to plant some watermelon.first when he arrived at 2:30pm at this hotel in mpeketoni he found G.SU in mpekentoni and some were in the hotel he went to eating at the restaurant .this show there was intel the threat level was high around mpeketoni but in the evening they were nowhere to be seen and he said the attack started at 8:30 pm and continued to 4:00 am and what saved him was when they started burning the hotel he went top floor of the build which was not completely finished ,thats where he hid with others and from up there they could see the attackers who had the black banner flag used by alshabaab ,dress like alshabaab with their covered face shouting allah akbar .and this attackers left without any resistance .so the so called  respond by G.S.U. was just a concocted story and he said they contacted all relevant authorities who claim a helicopter was being sent and non was seen.
this just shows the incompetent of our military and police authorities as even yesterday resident of mpeketoni said the security apparatus left by 6.00 pm,which makes us wonder who is pursuing this attackers who are hiding at this forest and not let the military claim this is not there mandate when on westgate they were there few hours after the attack started.why do we have the so called special force who we spent millions training while somalia ALPHA teams are seen minutes when a terrorist attack happens in Mogadishu and are well documented engaging in counter terrorism/insugency in somalia towns and countryside also the uganda special force are know to be engaged in the hunt for kony and somalia theater of operation.why are we the biggest spenders security wise in east africa with little to show for it ? its time we clean our security apparatus

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sayaret matkal on Tue Jun 17 2014, 15:59

Wow seems like all is not lost. Apparently some of this rants at TEA make it to the brass...jst saw a GK utumishi suzuki of the maruti family.govt finally accepts the cruiser is not cost efficient in urban areas.salute to the resident NIS operator.and umenyamaza sana.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Batian on Tue Jun 17 2014, 16:47

Sayaret matkal wrote:Wow seems like all is not lost. Apparently some of this rants at TEA make it to the brass...jst saw a GK utumishi suzuki of the maruti family.govt finally accepts the cruiser is not cost efficient in urban areas.salute to the resident NIS operator.and umenyamaza sana.
hehe wewe kwanza what is your mission? you are talking as if you are motivating a looser, let us not engage as if we are still trying to convey messages of comfort. the ordinary helpless kenyan (without) defence is stricken, either relatives are lost. innocent people are suffering. a son has lost a father or mother somewhere take it with the seriousness it deserves.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  africaken on Tue Jun 17 2014, 17:02

yesterday olenku held a press briefing and 2 to 3 three hours later he was in mpeketoni ,how is it that he can be provide with such logistics  while a crack team of our troops cant and why are they not hunting down those attackers in the forest neighboring somalia.i am sorry to say we may be heading the way of mali,iraq,libya e.t.c if this trend continue.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  obienga on Tue Jun 17 2014, 22:54

jasiri wrote:
Batian wrote:

 other men conducting the massacre were seen with army uniform..you cannot rule out divisions within our armed forces.why have crooked men in the army leasing weapons and uniforms.
correction batian, they said military uniforms, not army uniforms. one does not mean the other.
http://www.nation.co.ke/counties/Kenyan-police-arrest-tailor-with-security-uniforms-wajir/-/1107872/2336852/-/k5dbr6z/-/index.html

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sayaret matkal on Wed Jun 18 2014, 04:44

@Batian giving credit where it is due. The move was long overdue. The cruisers are too thirsty n you dnt need them on tarmac. The border outposts Jas suggested need them lakini si Nairobi...never undrstood the logic behind them, mayb its the carrying capacity. The maruti is lighter more manueverable in an urban setting and ofcos more economical to run and maintain. Its a step forward i had to recognise it.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Batian on Wed Jun 18 2014, 10:19

Sayaret matkal wrote:@Batian giving credit where it is due. The move was long overdue. The cruisers are too thirsty n you dnt need them on tarmac. The border outposts Jas suggested need them lakini si Nairobi...never undrstood the logic behind them, mayb its the carrying capacity. The maruti is lighter more manueverable in an urban setting and ofcos more economical to run and maintain. Its a step forward i had to recognise it.



by experience  landcruiser still remains the  car built for africa, you can still convert it to increase capacity. i have seen those suzukis somewhere in use very recently. If you are looking at fuel effeciency, and not flexibilty then maruti is the way foward.

cc Sayaret matkal

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

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