Kenya Defence Force

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 16 2012, 17:48

[quote="Spartan"] /quote]

We had quite an debate in School last year about that SANDF Whitepaper 95 - not its implications but the extent to which present realities reflect it. Wonderful change-strategy, in a ''normal'' society, a near-ideal blueprint. But South Africans are really two Nationalities in one Mega-State, very fractious, intensely divided. The horrific tragedy is that they accept segregation ( of color, economics, status, etc) to be a normal pillar of their society, and with this acceptance then, all the negative stereotypes that they conjured during over five hundred years of racist hegemony. Were it not for their huge Economy that insulates them from the shocks of their fratricidal arguments, South Africa would never stop burning.

As for their Military-Industrial complex - beyond the copy-pasting of Western and Israeli modules, I find nothing that endears them at all. Of what use this capability ( which they have) if it does not translate to foreign sales? Domestic consumption cannot justify the huge budgetary outlay in R & D alone, let alone ensure sustainability & continuity of development. Nor of the growth of the Military-Industrial Complex. I repeat, there is not one indigenous African notion, in any field of human endeavor, that they have contributed beyond Madiba since 1994!!

Witness Mbeki fluffing and puffing recently in Addis getting GoSS and Bashir to sign useless security accords!! You ever deployed with these guys on any scale, you would be amazed that they wear the same uniform!! afro

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Spartan on Thu Feb 16 2012, 19:12

ole Nkarei wrote:As for their Military-Industrial complex - beyond the copy-pasting of Western and Israeli modules, I find nothing that endears them at all. Of what use this capability ( which they have) if it does not translate to foreign sales? Domestic consumption cannot justify the huge budgetary outlay in R & D alone, let alone ensure sustainability & continuity of development.

Everyone is copying & pasting, bro. Why reinvent the wheel when someone else has already done it for you? As for foreign sales, I think I've seen a few Nyalas and Mambas operating in OLN.

By the way, the promised campaign for Afgoye (30km outside Moqadishu) has begun. Some S.A equipment must be at work there by now. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying their other contribution was exporting arms. Arms, as we all know, can be a double-edged sword.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 16 2012, 21:25

Spartan wrote:

Everyone is copying & pasting, bro. Why reinvent the wheel when someone else has already done it for you? As for foreign sales, I think I've seen a few Nyalas and Mambas operating in OLN.


One of the new KDF APC lost just outside Afmadow couple of weeks ago, is in bits and pieces at the Numerical Machining Complex with a half-company of GSU in very close proximity. They will put it back together in due time, and make a few exact copies of it, probably also some suggested modifications / improvements. Plus machine enough parts to keep the others similar-type APC running unless the needs are extreme.

Now, does that indicate a Military-industrial connection in Kenya worthy mentioning beyond our borders? These are baby steps, man!! That is the extent of Vuvuzela's competence presently - was much different during the closed days of apartheid!!

South Africa lost its backbone with the destruction of official apartheid!

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Interloper on Thu Feb 16 2012, 21:56

ON..I remember NMC during my college days...did a stint there for a few months.
There is real potential at that place.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 16 2012, 22:26

Spartan wrote:Everyone is copying & pasting, bro. Why reinvent the wheel when someone else has already done it for you?

The copy-pasta you all refer to is better known as the art of STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS. Everyone does it! Organization, or individual.
Like Ndugu Spartan says, why reinvent the wheel?

As for exporting of military equipment, it would be very ironical for a nation that "officially champions peace" to make lots of mullah from "exporting war machines".

That's why some countries export Near Top Versions of their warbirds for maximum carnage while others restrict the sales of theirs.

And that's also why Fa kumi na tano ya KAF export is highly improbable.
We would be better of locally assembling Sues like Mahatma's descendants (whos sues by the way reportedly raped sammy's EF one fivers)


By the way,.... locally assembled versions have always proved effective especially in times of need


Last edited by fusebox on Thu Feb 16 2012, 23:51; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 16 2012, 23:05

fusebox wrote:

I reckon you and I are standing atop very different mountains, Fusebox. Sad

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Olekoima on Fri Feb 17 2012, 11:27

Risasi wrote:
MWAURA wrote:Btw, I hope you all have noticed smth amidst all this. Beyond the noise and heat of OLN its detractors and supporters is one of the most significant armed forces equipment upgrades seen in this part of the world,or possibly anywhere else for that matter.
How many air forces have ever upgraded their strike aircraft by 50 % in one go?
How many air cavs have done the same by at least 30 % in one go?
How many armoured forces have ever increased their recce/anti AFV capability ,(BRDM) so significantly?
How many navies have ever grown so much with months? There are still 3 ex-French gunboats to be delivered, with the lone blue water corvette,Jasiri expected any time. From 3 gunboats and 2 landing ships to 8 gunboats ,2 landing ships and 1 corvette is not a small leap.
History has been made here,fellas!
Kenya can dominate its sphere much more effectively than the other putative powers. SANDF, qualitatively is still operationally a shadow of the former SADF. The Naijja boys by all accounts performed poorly in ECOMOG and in fact some say prolonged both civil wars in Liberia and Sierra Leone.
I don't see either of them projecting themselves so robustly outside their borders soon.


@Mwaura
All the above achieved through selling coffee berry, tea leaf's and fat belly white guy’s spending USD while busking with tuskers on our sandy beaches or watching Nkarei’s neighborhood at the Mara.

Our Military planners have done a good job in the last 30yres for the 10th ranked economy in the continent.. We had our shares of ups and down, but on the average it’s a Job well done.
I will tell in confident that had it not been for the mild military embargos during “M O 1” times, our forces would be stride away today.

Check out this interesting info. To compliment on what you have said above. ( Spears tips affraid )

Vuvuzela Defense Forces: (Largest economy on the continent)
Army:
38 out of 250 MBT in a working condition. Olifant 1A/1B tanks the only MBT’s in ops i would expect at least T-90 on the lower side for such an economy.
80 out of 240 Rooikat wheeled armoured fighting vehicle in a working status.
Artillery
GV6 155 mm self-propelled howitzer 43 pcs
GV5 155 mm howitzer 75pcs
G2 140 mm gun 66pcs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Army#Combat_vehicles

Air
Jas-39 22pcs as of 2008 before that BAe Hawk100 24pcs
11 helicopter gunships for the air Calvary. Denel AH-2 Rooivalk

Ogaa Armed force: (3th largest economy on the continent, 7th ranked globe crude oil supplier)
Army:
There are rooms for improvement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Army#Tanks

Airforce:
15pcs F-7 Chinese Cloned MiG-21
6pcs Mi35 gunship (air Calvary)

Lucky lucky them...... Rwanda isn,t an immediate next door neighbor otherwise Matching orders would be conducted in Kinya’rwanda Laughing .


@countersniper I hope that profile picture reflect you, you could spend sometimes somewhere under lock and key for impersonation "a......"...my friend ……otherwise to good to know we are in similar trades Very Happy .

Actually looking at Africa, one realizes that with the exception of Northern Africa, the East African region remains the most militarized zone dwarfing the west (quite modest even with the giant Nigeria) and the Southern Zone which includes the mighty South Africa.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 17 2012, 13:40

ole Nkarei wrote:
fusebox wrote:

I reckon you and I are standing atop very different mountains, Fusebox. Sad

Did you mean "standing atop different giants"

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British led and managed - The 'Scramble' for Somalia

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 17 2012, 18:45

Often I have found Rasna Warah opinions quite unwholesome because of the slant he drives. But a sneak-read through this treatise a day ago...... affraid
What is your take, brothers?

http://allafrica.com/stories/201202170846.html

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 17 2012, 19:24

Yes, read this some days ago. She does have a slant indeed but I must say that I find it generally agreeable. She knows who's sharpening their knife to carve out which roast and has no qualms when it comes to pointing fingers. Berlin all over again, albeit on a smaller scale.

ole Nkarei wrote:Often I have found Rasna Warah opinions quite unwholesome because of the slant he drives. But a sneak-read through this treatise a day ago...... affraid
What is your take, brothers?

http://allafrica.com/stories/201202170846.html

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 17 2012, 19:52

Vitruvian wrote: She does .... She knows who's......

http://allafrica.com/stories/201202170846.html
[/quote]

Oops!! Blame it on the masculinity of my surroundings, but dang-it Vitruvian, 'her' writings have so much testosterone- which is not such a surprising thing with today's switched on sisters!

But seriously, you wondered awhile ago how Johnny would respond to the 'cheeky' KDF incursion into Somalia 'without clearance". Well, now there you've got it. Ati a political ''Supreme Authority'' in which Johnny calls the shots, and a ''Joint Financial Management Board'' with a preponderance of Johnny's civilian appointees from Johnny's rapacious conglomerates!! Eiish! Cannot see how any good is coming from this conference! Tops of which we do all the dirty work and die for Johnny, and are lucky to pick up the crumbs from under the table - pick up the dirty end of the stick if this whole thing blows up in Johnny's face!!

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 17 2012, 21:08

Tops of which we do all the dirty work and die for Johnny, and are lucky
to pick up the crumbs from under the table - pick up the dirty end of
the stick if this whole thing blows up in Johnny's face!!

It is a crazy world. Not yet uhuru...

When will a time come when Africa will be able to solve her own problems without someone deciding for Africans from half-a-world away?

What should Africans learn from this whole thing?

No wonder US of Africa is still a dream.

All the more reason as Africans we should stand together.

EAC should have happened yesterday. When we are together we have a louder voice.

East Africans/Africans, wake and smell the cappuccino!

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  jasiri on Fri Feb 17 2012, 21:12

there's something i have been following for quite a while and the trail has suddenly gone cold. sometimes back, the woo family was pretty optimistic of finding oil in Kenya. They drilled the 5KM Bhogal-1 well n found gas, albeit in non commercial value volumes. a few months later, they pack up stealthily and sneak out of the country. the government that was singing songs of joy goes mute on the exploration business. in my opinion, there's more to this story thn meets the eye. kwanza, the lack of info is absolutely an eyebrow raiser. what is happening hapa?

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 17 2012, 21:36

jasiri wrote:there's something i have been following for quite a while and the trail has suddenly gone cold. sometimes back, the woo family was pretty optimistic of finding oil in Kenya. They drilled the 5KM Bhogal-1 well n found gas, albeit in non commercial value volumes. a few months later, they pack up stealthily and sneak out of the country. the government that was singing songs of joy goes mute on the exploration business. in my opinion, there's more to this story thn meets the eye. kwanza, the lack of info is absolutely an eyebrow raiser. what is happening hapa?
. Woo was reconfirming known data. If they found it faulty, the usual statements of "disappointments" would have swiftly preceded their withdrawal. Note their eagerness to get on with the juba-lamu turnkey projects.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Interloper on Fri Feb 17 2012, 22:17

Is Johnny planning for abandonment of some areas to AS?
This could be crazy!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/somalia/9086599/Al-Shabaab-Militants-may-be-free-to-control-Somalias-south.html

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 17 2012, 23:50

[quote="Interloper"]Is Johnny planning for abandonment of some areas to AS?
This could be crazy!!

/quote]

From all indications, it looks very much like so - Hell, Johnny has already crafted a Communique of the London Conference a week before it actually takes place - whatever is in circulation looks authentic! . It increasingly looks clearer that the Johnny's purpose is not to pacify and re-engineer All-of-Somalia, but to get in as quick as possible and get out as much as possible within the shortest period of time - Indian ocean offshore oil and gas fields upto lamu, Oil-fields in Puntland and Somaliland. Gedo, Middle Juba and Lower Juba are being jettisoned to AS to fester as a Kenya ''problem'' - if AS is concentrated in these areas, obviously a prolonged argument with KDF will be in the cards. High risk game this.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  mbs on Sat Feb 18 2012, 00:43

why then cant we(KDF) create a third force in Somalia to fight for our 'rights'. it seems we are being shoved aside as we are too nice. Rwanda has done it in the DRC and also UG. We cant create a landing pad for anyone else to operate in. its time to be selfish. either we are in command or nobody is !

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  cylon on Sat Feb 18 2012, 00:51

USMC Ice Soldier wrote:Apparently from what I am hearing Shabaab is doing an internal investigation because the airstrikes have been too precise on Shabaab interests that they believe their club has been compromised. They cannot even organize a barbacue without KDF knowing what vegetables went into the kachumbari. But that is just heresay I'll post some links when I come by them

USMC ICE SOLDIER i read somewhere here that you said united states APC have signal jammers to disable I.E.D. detonating signals but a few years ago i had emailed the united states department of defense that i had come up with a better way to detect ieds and it involved small road side signal spikes and they work by connecting the spikes every 1 mile with each other on all major traveled zones in conflicts areas and they would scan and detect any metallic objects placed by the side of the road.And would warn any soldiers to avoid that section of the road.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  cylon on Sat Feb 18 2012, 04:55

The KNS JASIRI on its way home.


A mi-171 at the coast


Could this be a kenyan f-16 it has the insignia on the wings


So these are KDF elusive c-130's i got these images on google


A lone ranger awaiting orders to go lay waste some alshabab


A KDF helicopter being shipped to who knows where.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Mbaine on Sat Feb 18 2012, 08:28

Some food for thought.
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/EA+on+way+to+Middle+Income+status+but+challenges+remain+/-/440808/1329648/-/item/1/-/aaud4vz/-/index.html

@ Cyclon is that Hip Kenyan? The roundel doesn't look it.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  cylon on Sat Feb 18 2012, 09:16

@Azkahia I dont know if it let ask risasi or nakeri to confirm if these are kenyan camo (mi-171)

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 18 2012, 09:38

cylon wrote:@Azkahia I dont know if it let ask risasi or nakeri to confirm if these are kenyan camo (mi-171)

You don't need an expert to tell you that "Desert Camo" is not KDF's livery scheme.
From that post, only the Jasiri and the MD500 are KDF

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  cylon on Sat Feb 18 2012, 09:57

fusebox wrote:
cylon wrote:@Azkahia I dont know if it let ask risasi or nakeri to confirm if these are kenyan camo (mi-171)

You don't need an expert to tell you that "Desert Camo" is not KDF's livery scheme.
From that post, only the Jasiri and the MD500 are KDF

The last photo is a kdf chopper being loaded onto a plane you can clearly see the roundel on the back. Also show KDF change to a new livery a color that matches its surrounding like gray with splotches of the desert would look cool on KDF planes.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 18 2012, 10:37

@cylon Maybe you should ask the analyst for some "help"

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  MWAURA on Sat Feb 18 2012, 11:13

ole Nkarei wrote:
Spartan wrote:

Everyone is copying & pasting, bro. Why reinvent the wheel when someone else has already done it for you? As for foreign sales, I think I've seen a few Nyalas and Mambas operating in OLN.


One of the new KDF APC lost just outside Afmadow couple of weeks ago, is in bits and pieces at the Numerical Machining Complex with a half-company of GSU in very close proximity. They will put it back together in due time, and make a few exact copies of it, probably also some suggested modifications / improvements. Plus machine enough parts to keep the others similar-type APC running unless the needs are extreme.

Now, does that indicate a Military-industrial connection in Kenya worthy mentioning beyond our borders? These are baby steps, man!! That is the extent of Vuvuzela's competence presently - was much different during the closed days of apartheid!!

South Africa lost its backbone with the destruction of official apartheid!
Excellent! Coupled with the news of the locally assembled mi28s this is the nucleus of a local arms and equipment manufacturing industry. This particular path of repair and improvement saves time and resources that would otherwise go to R and D.
The Brits are subtle;you've gotta hand it to them. Unlike their Atlantic cousins they know how to camouflage their intentions. IMO,however this move is too little too late and even disinterested parties can see it for what it is-a fading world power desperately seeking relevance,ignoring new realities.
Of course they'll find some Marehaan taxi drivers and idle Reer Wood Green youth for their conference to legitimise their interference,but beyond that, I see no relevance in the initiative.
@Mwaura
All the above achieved through selling coffee berry, tea
leaf's and fat belly white guy’s spending USD while busking with
tuskers on our sandy beaches or watching Nkarei’s neighborhood at the
Mara.

Our Military planners have done a good job in the last
30yres for the 10th ranked economy in the continent.. We had our shares
of ups and down, but on the average it’s a Job well done.
I will
tell in confident that had it not been for the mild military embargos
during “M O 1” times, our forces would be stride away today.

Check out this interesting info. To compliment on what you have said above. ( Spears tips affraid )

Vuvuzela Defense Forces: (Largest economy on the continent)
Army:
38
out of 250 MBT in a working condition. Olifant 1A/1B tanks the only
MBT’s in ops i would expect at least T-90 on the lower side for such an
economy.
80 out of 240 Rooikat wheeled armoured fighting vehicle in a working status.
Artillery
GV6 155 mm self-propelled howitzer 43 pcs
GV5 155 mm howitzer 75pcs
G2 140 mm gun 66pcs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Army#Combat_vehicles

Air
Jas-39 22pcs as of 2008 before that BAe Hawk100 24pcs
11 helicopter gunships for the air Calvary. Denel AH-2 Rooivalk

Ogaa Armed force: (3th largest economy on the continent, 7th ranked globe crude oil supplier)
Army:
There are rooms for improvement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Army#Tanks

Airforce:
15pcs F-7 Chinese Cloned MiG-21
6pcs Mi35 gunship (air Calvary)

Lucky
lucky them...... Rwanda isn,t an immediate next door neighbor otherwise
Matching orders would be conducted in Kinya’rwanda Laughing .


@countersniper
I hope that profile picture reflect you, you could spend sometimes
somewhere under lock and key for impersonation "a......"...my friend
……otherwise to good to know we are in similar trades Very Happy
Exactly! With tea,coffee,tourism,french beans and flowers we've undertaken one of the most rapid full spectrum armed forces upgrades the world has seen outside of wartime! SA and Naijja are disappointing. They only have 15 pieces of outdated 50 year old Chinese aviation technology?? My,my,my.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 18 2012, 11:30

MWAURA wrote:SA and Naijja are disappointing. They only have 15 pieces of outdated 50 year old Chinese aviation technology?? My,my,my.

I doubt any of those two has a reason to up the ante.
SA's "external threats" are really no match for their well trained grippen crews and 9ja has more to worry about internally. Like tz, their old Zhōngguó birds are deterrent enuf

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  jasiri on Sat Feb 18 2012, 12:39

fusebox wrote:

I doubt any of those two has a reason to up the ante.
SA's "external threats" are really no match for their well trained grippen crews and 9ja has more to worry about internally. Like tz, their old Zhōngguó birds are deterrent enuf

Hehehe well trained? d other day SAAF was borrowing instructors from Boss Robert's air force. The Grippens currently log less hours because of underfunding of the Military http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Gripen-wont-fly-required-hours-20110413 . can someone please remind me again that South Africa is an economic power house?

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Spartan on Sat Feb 18 2012, 14:54

fusebox wrote:
cylon wrote:@Azkahia I dont know if it let ask risasi or nakeri to confirm if these are kenyan camo (mi-171)

You don't need an expert to tell you that "Desert Camo" is not KDF's livery scheme.
From that post, only the Jasiri and the MD500 are KDF

Fusebox and Azkahia are right, cyclon. Indulge me as I introduce you to reverse image searching (determining which other websites are using the same picture, even if it has been slightly altered or its size changed, or even renamed). All files generated by computers are assigned MD5 hash values, and that is what is used to determine if two pictures came from the same original. The service is free and can be accessed on this website link;

http://www.tineye.com

Apparently, the chopper belongs to Johnny and originally came from here;

http://www.strikehold.net/2010/05/27/new-lynx-helicopters-boost-air-support-in-afghanistan/

The F-16 picture appears on 11 other websites. Needless to say, the bird is not Kenyan. There's little on the C-130s but the picture is named 'Kenyan11' or something. So there could be some truth in it.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  vince on Sat Feb 18 2012, 14:57

A simple flip of the coin and you won't tell the difference between AS and TFG.

http://www.somaliareport.com/index.php/post/2823/TFG_Executes_Government_Soldier__

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 18 2012, 15:08

Speaking of the grippen, why do europeans LOVE delta-wing configs more than the stealthy,conventional pak-fa and f22 type config?

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

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