Kenya Defence Force

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  areba on Mon Mar 19 2012, 16:09

looks like sibling rivalry, just to me. accusations and counter accusations all really looking like feeble attempts to outdo each other in front of sammy. Good old days when action across the borders had to be preceeded by an explanation to our supervisors...

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Observer on Mon Mar 19 2012, 16:26

Spartan wrote:
Observer wrote:Just out of curiosity, what really went down at "Busia in 1990" i know there were hostilities with the NRA and the GSU and AP caught in the action before KDF intervened ... was young lad back then growing up in Gilo 5th MQ and saw a lot of mobilization ...again the incident is not well documented and i scraped the net sometime back trying to get info but there wasn't much esp. militarily apart from general information on suspicion btwn Moi and M7 ...@ON n @spartan any luck you could provide a more detailed version ... or some links ...

Man, am not sure whether I could tell my left leg from my right arm then, but what I gather is that the whole affair begun in 1987 when Ugandan rebels crossed to Kenya and at one point NRA pursued them across. This culminated with the expulsion of two Ugandan diplomats and the closure of the Libyan embassy in December 1987.

A more detailed version of the events can be found here but what's for sure is that if we didn't go to war then, we will never. This is the American take on those events.

... thanks for the links @spartan ... i do agree all out hostilities within the "immediate EAC" is something we may never see, more so with view of the larger economic context and all the three leaders are more critically aware of the possible damage ... but again the political context is ever changing, if we don't get it right and a "madman" rises from our midst that could easily take us back to the 80's, a scenario i,m sure Johnny and Co. would love to loathe and lord over ...

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Kenya Uganda tensions 1990

Post  MOOZALENDO on Mon Mar 19 2012, 16:35

Observer and Spartan, the suspicions between M7 anf Mo1 would never end because of their backgrounds. Also M7 used some Ugandan civilians in Kenya for some unusual work...remember a good guy called Gregory Byaruhanga? The late Greg was a good man but he mixed up with NRA operatives who probably spent time as his guests. He met a very painful death!

Suspicion suspicion.

Anyway, '87 to 90 were difficult years for the people along the common border.



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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  cylon on Mon Mar 19 2012, 16:48

Kobooz wrote:

@ Cyclon has really maintained a vicious anti ffifteens campaign eh, i don't know what he has against then or what he has towards his choice sell the fsixteens! Talk of skeptics I agree kenyan's are top on the chart. Can you imagine how the Lamu thing, the successful OLN etc should have excited us?

Because i know what those jets and the implications it will bring. Sammy would at least demand for it to use all kenya airbases to store their fighters when time came to respond to any threats in neighboring nations, they would play with our politics etc


Last edited by cylon on Mon Mar 19 2012, 21:37; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Olekoima on Mon Mar 19 2012, 17:53

Spartan wrote:
ole Nkarei wrote:
mJESHI mMOJA wrote:@ON some of your officemates are tripling canny…why did they have to wait till a neighbor has a 10year $740 million (USH1.8 trillion) bill for hanger queens that pitch 30% of his perceived treats to unleash those Nightmares? its like going for a date dressed in smart tuxedo and dirty under garment . what happens when the date says lets go to the room try to make babies asp…… What a Face What a Face :face:

@Risasi what have you guys decide chuma will belong to AF or ArmyCALV.. plus all along you kept us spoofed that it was the Mi35 that was comming what happened changed of plans?

@Mjeshi - I tell you buddy, the only thing I understood was ''go to the room try to make babies asap''. Break this down kidogo for me, and I will try to give response.

Mjeshi almost lost me there too, bro. But couldn't miss the hostile intent with that rather explicit example. Like it or not, those birds will be in the air soon with Black East Africans in the cockpits. The SU-30 is a modification of the SU-27, which both the Ethiopians and Eritreans have had for decades. If Eritrea, as backward and poor as it is can operate them, what about us? Training of fresh boys begun in 2007, they've since been to Israel and Russia. They will 'grow' in them. But you can continue with your denial, it works for us. All older pilots like Risasi will soon be out of a job this side of the border.

@ole Nkarei, the only movement in that area is routine, and I think I answered this two days ago. I said then that we are the adults here and we owe it to the region and the world to behave as such, much like Kenya exercised restraint at Busia in 1990.

What do you mean? I thought they were already operational and ready for combat.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Olekoima on Mon Mar 19 2012, 18:10

ole Nkarei wrote:First of all, we have a decades-old defense pact of sort with Ethiopia – ‘’if my house is burning, come help without being called’’. How did Ethiopia so successfully Mobilize for War with Eritrea despite being cut off from the Port of Asmara? Ati eh!! It would be inconceivable that one partner launches without prior discussions with the other partner a military adventure that may suck in their partner in protracted Armed Conflict – Objective, Parameters, Duration, etc. That the Old Man, and M7 I suspect, was in the know about this strike should not be in any doubts!!

Second, it is equally inconceivable that any of the players with strategic interest in the success of AMISOM would jeopardise AMISOM as currently projected. Therefore, to avoid a convergence of AS resistance to AMISOM with possible Eritrean military indignations, Meles must not make the Ethiopian Strike in Eritrea while still engaged in Somalia with AMISOM. So – disengagement from Somalia announcement before the Strike. Absolutely nothing to do with ‘’ Ethiopian fear of waging a two-front war’’ as some ignorant ‘’investigative’ journalists are posing in their hallowed columns.

Thirdly, for the same justification that Terrorism and Destabilization from rebel group across borders, endangering the Economic stability of Kenya, launched OLN, so was Ethiopian Strike into Eritrea. There was really no alternative.

Fourthly, for critical purpose of damage limitation and canvassing for acceptance, Meles needed to have someone else on this too. See how little fall-out has resulted? Sends a clear message that IGAD is not a talking shop any longer - heard Bashir openly gripping juzi tuu about being sidelined in IGAD?

These and other such considerations are what informs Eritrean decision ‘’not to react to Ethiopian invasion..’’. It does help when States form an unbroken line in dealing with security issues arising from rogue states like Eritrea.

Quite interesting. However, i' am worried about our brothers down south. Seems like they are being left behind. M7, Meles and the old man seem to be focussed and looking at the bigger picture while our brothers down there are painfully too cautious. The world is moving and they seem not to notice. Entangling themselves too much with affairs further south might come to haunt them some day.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Olekoima on Mon Mar 19 2012, 18:46

Now Sudan feels left out and frustrated too. Where is the bravado they initially had? Humbled?

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/Lamu+port+deal+leaves+Khartoum+feeling+put+out/-/2558/1368050/-/12dd3ra/-/index.html

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Fabrizio on Mon Mar 19 2012, 20:35

I don't understand the obsession with South Africans. Naturally they will be concerned with matters in their immediate environment. If they have to, I don't doubt their capacity to arm up and defend themselves from their threats. Its very easy to forget that South Africa had nuclear weapons(the real deal, the bombs, not just ambitions like Iran) and a respectable arms industry, manufacturing guided cruise missiles, attack choppers, the best artillery systems, and what have you, when you read some comments on this blog. Their economy is ten times bigger than Kenya's. Let's be honest, they are on a different plane altogether as anyone who has ever set foot in SA will attest. I like the Kenyanna idea, but let's keep it real. There are things we can learn and benefit from them.
Olekoima wrote:
Quite interesting. However, i' am worried about our brothers down south. Seems like they are being left behind. M7, Meles and the old man seem to be focussed and looking at the bigger picture while our brothers down there are painfully too cautious. The world is moving and they seem not to notice. Entangling themselves too much with affairs further south might come to haunt them some day.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  cylon on Mon Mar 19 2012, 21:50

Fabrizio wrote:I don't understand the obsession with South Africans. Naturally they will be concerned with matters in their immediate environment. If they have to, I don't doubt their capacity to arm up and defend themselves from their threats. Its very easy to forget that South Africa had nuclear weapons(the real deal, the bombs, not just ambitions like Iran) and a respectable arms industry, manufacturing guided cruise missiles, attack choppers, the best artillery systems, and what have you, when you read some comments on this blog. Their economy is ten times bigger than Kenya's. Let's be honest, they are on a different plane altogether as anyone who has ever set foot in SA will attest. I like the Kenyanna idea, but let's keep it real. There are things we can learn and benefit from them.
Olekoima wrote:
Quite interesting. However, i' am worried about our brothers down south. Seems like they are being left behind. M7, Meles and the old man seem to be focussed and looking at the bigger picture while our brothers down there are painfully too cautious. The world is moving and they seem not to notice. Entangling themselves too much with affairs further south might come to haunt them some day.

Nuclear weapons have solved nothing so who cares if they have nukes they will never get to use them unless we want to annihilate the world. And entering the weapons market is not hard at all we in kenya we have engineers and companies on the ready to build us weapons etc. The economy of SA might be bigger because its mainly based off natural resources. unlike kenya which focuses on tourism, horticulture, transportation, etc. On a different plane they are not a first world country the world still views SA as a 3rd world nation even if it boasts that it has this and that we are all on the same boat here. Kenyana is real buddy once lamu port is finished all cargo wanting to go east will be transiting thru kenya and our cargo going west will go use the same route i have friends in Cameroon, E.Gu and they are excited about the port all because it will connect west and central africa with the east.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  cylon on Mon Mar 19 2012, 21:55

Olekoima wrote:Now Sudan feels left out and frustrated too. Where is the bravado they initially had? Humbled?

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/Lamu+port+deal+leaves+Khartoum+feeling+put+out/-/2558/1368050/-/12dd3ra/-/index.html


Well thats to bad for sudan if it wants to join in projects they must drop all hostilities with its neighbors and let BAshir get arrested and then a new sudan will be ushered by such projects. We will need them in the long run


Also Watch this.

[youtube][/youtube]

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Olekoima on Tue Mar 20 2012, 07:46

Fabrizio wrote:I don't understand the obsession with South Africans. Naturally they will be concerned with matters in their immediate environment. If they have to, I don't doubt their capacity to arm up and defend themselves from their threats. Its very easy to forget that South Africa had nuclear weapons(the real deal, the bombs, not just ambitions like Iran) and a respectable arms industry, manufacturing guided cruise missiles, attack choppers, the best artillery systems, and what have you, when you read some comments on this blog. Their economy is ten times bigger than Kenya's. Let's be honest, they are on a different plane altogether as anyone who has ever set foot in SA will attest. I like the Kenyanna idea, but let's keep it real. There are things we can learn and benefit from them.
Olekoima wrote:
Quite interesting. However, i' am worried about our brothers down south. Seems like they are being left behind. M7, Meles and the old man seem to be focussed and looking at the bigger picture while our brothers down there are painfully too cautious. The world is moving and they seem not to notice. Entangling themselves too much with affairs further south might come to haunt them some day.

I meant TZ not SA.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Fabrizio on Tue Mar 20 2012, 07:49

I fail to see any point in this response. We already know you are not the sharpest tool in the shade.
cylon wrote:
Fabrizio wrote:I don't understand the obsession with South Africans. Naturally they will be concerned with matters in their immediate environment. If they have to, I don't doubt their capacity to arm up and defend themselves from their threats. Its very easy to forget that South Africa had nuclear weapons(the real deal, the bombs, not just ambitions like Iran) and a respectable arms industry, manufacturing guided cruise missiles, attack choppers, the best artillery systems, and what have you, when you read some comments on this blog. Their economy is ten times bigger than Kenya's. Let's be honest, they are on a different plane altogether as anyone who has ever set foot in SA will attest. I like the Kenyanna idea, but let's keep it real. There are things we can learn and benefit from them.
Olekoima wrote:
Quite interesting. However, i' am worried about our brothers down south. Seems like they are being left behind. M7, Meles and the old man seem to be focussed and looking at the bigger picture while our brothers down there are painfully too cautious. The world is moving and they seem not to notice. Entangling themselves too much with affairs further south might come to haunt them some day.

Nuclear weapons have solved nothing so who cares if they have nukes they will never get to use them unless we want to annihilate the world. And entering the weapons market is not hard at all we in kenya we have engineers and companies on the ready to build us weapons etc. The economy of SA might be bigger because its mainly based off natural resources. unlike kenya which focuses on tourism, horticulture, transportation, etc. On a different plane they are not a first world country the world still views SA as a 3rd world nation even if it boasts that it has this and that we are all on the same boat here. Kenyana is real buddy once lamu port is finished all cargo wanting to go east will be transiting thru kenya and our cargo going west will go use the same route i have friends in Cameroon, E.Gu and they are excited about the port all because it will connect west and central africa with the east.

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THE FUTURE IS EAST AFRICA'S TO LOSE

Post  Spartan on Tue Mar 20 2012, 09:55

Observer wrote:i do agree all out hostilities within the "immediate EAC" is something we may never see, more so with view of the larger economic context and all the three leaders are more critically aware of the possible damage...

Totally in agreement. It's now official that the region predicted to grow fastest between 2012 - 2020 is East Africa. We could throw away a big chance to climb to middle income status with the slightest hint of conflict in this region. If we are successful in Somalia the picture will be even rosier.

Apparently, the East Africa region has one of the highest levels of 'economic complexity' relative to our per capita incomes, leaving a lot of room fro growth, according to the Atlas of Economic Complexity published by professors from MIT and Harvard. If you need to polish up on these terms (I needed to), this website breaks them down effectively.

But this is a forum on EA military matters, right? We need to prepare for conflict, and be perceived as such. The only way to safeguard economic assets is by being able to project power far and wide. That's what the West's aircraft carriers are for, the reason why China is building one.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Fabrizio on Tue Mar 20 2012, 15:04

My bad Olekoima. Tz may actually be leaning towards the SADC grouping. There is a certain indecisiveness from that part of the region.
Olekoima wrote:
Fabrizio wrote:I don't understand the obsession with South Africans. Naturally they will be concerned with matters in their immediate environment. If they have to, I don't doubt their capacity to arm up and defend themselves from their threats. Its very easy to forget that South Africa had nuclear weapons(the real deal, the bombs, not just ambitions like Iran) and a respectable arms industry, manufacturing guided cruise missiles, attack choppers, the best artillery systems, and what have you, when you read some comments on this blog. Their economy is ten times bigger than Kenya's. Let's be honest, they are on a different plane altogether as anyone who has ever set foot in SA will attest. I like the Kenyanna idea, but let's keep it real. There are things we can learn and benefit from them.
Olekoima wrote:
Quite interesting. However, i' am worried about our brothers down south. Seems like they are being left behind. M7, Meles and the old man seem to be focussed and looking at the bigger picture while our brothers down there are painfully too cautious. The world is moving and they seem not to notice. Entangling themselves too much with affairs further south might come to haunt them some day.

I meant TZ not SA.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  jasiri on Tue Mar 20 2012, 15:11

We already know you are not the sharpest tool in the shade.
that's a hit below the belt man! eiiishhh! Shocked

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  jasiri on Tue Mar 20 2012, 15:30

what i see happening in the future is East African community countries grouping in a NATO like defence union. n just like NATO we have our own France in the form of Tanzania. However the glaring deficiency in naval power can not be ignored. Kenya has no choice but to start taking it's naval presence/naval projection of power seriously. Into the future, this may turn out to be the single most important branch of the military in terms of protecting the business passing through our waters. newer more capable(not necessarily larger) vessels have t be commissioned to address this. It would make no sense to have a bad ass Air Force, a ferocious army n a toothless navy. Now with the pacification of Somalia, Kenya military planners have definitely recognised a need for a powerful naval force. i mean we can't have the Somalis swimming up our coast with all manner of ordnances strapped on their backs now can we?...by the way i hear rumours that a deal was struckk on the side to allow the Kenya Navy to acquire a larger more advanced ship as compensation for OLN. any body have info on this? just generalities. I believe this, it may be the reason why the KN rejected Jasiri after all.

EAC/IGAD should be carefull with how they play their cards with Bashir. If the frusration they have aired r anything to go by, then they have no problem risking a war since they have nothing to loose anyway!
@Analyst, Sudan has no Sukhois, MiG 29's are their prime machines.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Olekoima on Tue Mar 20 2012, 15:53

jasiri wrote:what i see happening in the future is East African community countries grouping in a NATO like defence union. n just like NATO we have our own France in the form of Tanzania. However the glaring deficiency in naval power can not be ignored. Kenya has no choice but to start taking it's naval presence/naval projection of power seriously. Into the future, this may turn out to be the single most important branch of the military in terms of protecting the business passing through our waters. newer more capable(not necessarily larger) vessels have t be commissioned to address this. It would make no sense to have a bad ass Air Force, a ferocious army n a toothless navy. Now with the pacification of Somalia, Kenya military planners have definitely recognised a need for a powerful naval force. i mean we can't have the Somalis swimming up our coast with all manner of ordnances strapped on their backs now can we?...by the way i hear rumours that a deal was struckk on the side to allow the Kenya Navy to acquire a larger more advanced ship as compensation for OLN. any body have info on this? just generalities. I believe this, it may be the reason why the KN rejected Jasiri after all.

EAC/IGAD should be carefull with how they play their cards with Bashir. If the frusration they have aired r anything to go by, then they have no problem risking a war since they have nothing to loose anyway!
@Analyst, Sudan has no Sukhois, MiG 29's are their prime machines.

I agree with you on the need to revamp the navy @Jasiri. I hope the military top brass are reading this script too. Like we have seen in the OLN, the navy is very vital and effective too. This branch must not be left out. We even need to expand it further to say 10,000 personnel. The needs of the future Kenyana will solely depend on a robust and efficient naval force capable of keeping all the trade routes safe.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Olekoima on Tue Mar 20 2012, 16:04

ole Nkarei wrote:
Attended live action full battlefield simulations of these monsters juzi up north, and I tell you these things should be outlawed from modern warfare! Simply put there as just Airborne MBT's without the wheeled trucks and long-gun. Two squadrons of mix of Mi28/Ka-50s pack-hunting / free-ranging along a virtual line across the GoSS (of course with Risasi riding herd above them) can effectively shut down all southward aggressor-movements below Juba - uniformed, wheeled, camouflaged!! Only safe place for you buddy, if you should hear their approach 'whoop-whoop-whoop'' thunder, is out in the open ground, dressed in a very white shirt, standing straight up with your hands on your side!! Even then it might be too late for you, by gawd!! Eeeeish bana!!

Tis not war on AS that we envisage, gentlemen!!

Hey mate, i' am kind of lost here. The two monsters, the Mil M-28 and the Kamov-50 are all aircrafts of comparable role (Along with Apache AH-64). Why would Kenya need the two of them together? Kenya ordered 16 units of Mil M-28 with some units already received. Now there 4 units of the Kamov rumored to be in the country. What is going on here?

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  jasiri on Tue Mar 20 2012, 16:15

Olekoima wrote:

Hey mate, i' am kind of lost here. The two monsters, the Mil M-28 and the Kamov-50 are all aircrafts of comparable role (Along with Apache AH-64). Why would Kenya need the two of them together? Kenya ordered 16 units of Mil M-28 with some units already received. Now there 4 units of the Kamov rumored to be in the country. What is going on here?

Speed, versatility, agility and adaptability. simply put, in a high intensity firefight a Kamov is highly likely to emerge unscathed compared to the Mi-28

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Guest on Tue Mar 20 2012, 16:25


EAC/IGAD should be carefull with how they play their cards with
Bashir. If the frusration they have aired r anything to go by, then they
have no problem risking a war since they have nothing to loose anyway!

@Jasiri, since I read this I have been thinking is there more than meets the eye?
[quote="ole Nkarei"]

Tis not war on AS that we envisage, gentlemen!!

Methinks something could be in the offing. What I don't know are the implications of another theater kaskazini. OEB really has nothing to lose while I think we have a lot to lose. The international community would be 'shocked' at how 'rogue' we have become....Can we afford such an engagement at this time? Ama Kiir atasimamia na mafuta?


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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Observer on Tue Mar 20 2012, 16:39

talking about M-28's and Kamov's, there’s urgency for some air assets in crazy to hunt the mortar bases http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE82J03R20120320?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
… we haven’t heard much about motar attacks in the "other" sector the MD’s and Z-9's wouldn’t allow for that …

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Olekoima on Tue Mar 20 2012, 16:55

jasiri wrote:
Olekoima wrote:

Hey mate, i' am kind of lost here. The two monsters, the Mil M-28 and the Kamov-50 are all aircrafts of comparable role (Along with Apache AH-64). Why would Kenya need the two of them together? Kenya ordered 16 units of Mil M-28 with some units already received. Now there 4 units of the Kamov rumored to be in the country. What is going on here?

Speed, versatility, agility and adaptability. simply put, in a high intensity firefight a Kamov is highly likely to emerge unscathed compared to the Mi-28

In that case, why not go for large numbers of the Kamov and leave out the Mil M-28?

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  Sierra Kilo on Tue Mar 20 2012, 20:51

Observer wrote:… we haven’t heard much about motar attacks in the "other" sector the MD’s and Z-9's wouldn’t allow for that …
@Observer, ....dont be so sure about that. This counts as the first retreat ever by a 'modern army' to a ragtag militia. http://www.somaliareport.com/index.php/post/3106/Al-Shabaab_Take_Control_Of_Dhiif_Village

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Exactly...

Post  Guest on Tue Mar 20 2012, 21:15

[quote="Olekoima"][quote="jasiri"]
Olekoima wrote:

In that case, why not go for large numbers of the Kamov and leave out the Mil M-28?

@ Olekoima. My sentiments exactly. Anyway, I think it's bait...if you get my drift.

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  cylon on Tue Mar 20 2012, 21:35

[quote="Fabrizio"]I fail to see any point in this response. We already know you are not the sharpest tool in the shade.[quote]

I find that rather comical haha thanks for the laugh but insulting me isnt proving anything. But if you wanna keep insulting people there are vast forums available all over ther internet you could go there and find a home. Sleep Sleep

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Re: Kenya Defence Force

Post  cylon on Tue Mar 20 2012, 21:42

jasiri wrote:by the way i hear rumours that a deal was struckk on the side to allow the Kenya Navy to acquire a larger more advanced ship as compensation for OLN. any body have info on this? just generalities. I believe this, it may be the reason why the KN rejected Jasiri after all..

Top brass are paying attention very closely and they are looking east and west to find the best replacement ships for offshore patrols. a few pages back in the forum i had listed some of the ships that kenya could acquire and a lot of you here all said i was crazy and now before the year ends KDF will have two big offshore gunboats.

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A look at the MIL-28 Helicopter

Post  mashaa on Wed Mar 21 2012, 05:39

is this what KDF has acquired?

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more of the Mil-28

Post  mashaa on Wed Mar 21 2012, 05:42

more on the MIL-28


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KAMOV-50 is this the other acquisition?

Post  mashaa on Wed Mar 21 2012, 05:51

enjoy the KAMOV-50 not bad.....


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Sudan Acquired 15 Russian-made Sukhoi Su-25 "Frogfoot" Fighters from Belarus 2008

Post  Analyst on Wed Mar 21 2012, 08:34

jasiri wrote:
@Analyst, Sudan has no Sukhois, MiG 29's are their prime machines.

Jasiri....hope you are good.

Let me clear the mist about the Sudanese Air Force Sukhoi's

Sudanese Air Force had one Su-25 in service as of November 2008 (a trial purchase) and on the same year along-side Gambia and Chad bought more from break away republic of Belarus.

Sudan Acquired 15 Russian-made Sukhoi Su-25 "Frogfoot" Fighters from Belarus in 2008.

A reliable link here http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/22/us-sudan-darfur-jets-idUSTRE69L4ON20101022
And the images here http://irnglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/image-152113-galleryV9-sqse.jpg

This is also documented in some quite high profile intel resources online.


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Re: Kenya Defence Force

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