Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  countersniper on Mon Aug 13 2012, 15:39

latest information is that the Kenyan military has airlifted the rescued Ugandan crew to Nanyukis laikipa air base.
we hope proper measures are taken to shield our secrets at Nanyuki Very Happy Very Happy

i agree it is possible those crews may have involved themselves in a constructive destruction of those birds so that AU AMISOM/USA/EU can foot the bill for replacement....if that is the case..i salute them with all my heart. Very Happy Very Happy

or the crew knew the machines were not worth the trouble to be used in war theater and rather than refuse to go...they decided to land the machines in Kenyan forests to send their message the planes are not good. it is strange all three choppers made it to the ground and crew are safe
BUT
because we are not being told if anyway day signal was relayed
one more thing..it seems the UPDF has some problems executing mission critical flights.
we all remember what happened to JOHN GARANGS flight from entebe to jubba that ended in disaster.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  aggressor one on Mon Aug 13 2012, 15:58

Analyst wrote:With all of these Hinds crashing and not making it to theater, i find it fishy particularly on the Ugandan side.

These helicopters were not worth action in Somalia though they all bear the insignia of AU.

From the videos of takeoff from Entebbe, i can verify zero-combat capability inside these birds.

check video http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/tv/video/LY6NK1lKufk

No strategic positions for soldiers inside to use the birds, no seats, rather an open deck inside, empty space on passenger/troop cabin, and then the zero formation when flying along the flight path.

Another worrying perspective is the state of the crashed HINDS, if they crash landed, were they broken to a state of zero resuscitation?

Why are both parties not shedding light on the state of the copters?....ok...a forensic audit on them will tell.

Uganda and Nairobi played dirty here.....Kampala might have disposed those old gunny-bags using such a ploy to have them replaced...

Its the easiest way to reap the spoils of war.


My friend analyst, the choppers that 'disappeared' were fairly newer versions of MI-24 family. All of them were MI-24PN, with night navigation capabilities. They had even been overhauled for weeks for this deployment. Your view about them not being ready for the operation may not rise.

And to make another correction, the flight path was Soroti Military Academy-eastern Uganda, landed at Eldoret, then landed at Nanyuki all in the name of refueling.

However, from the start i had reservations about flying these choppers to Somalia. My view was that they should have been dismantled and loaded on cargo planes to Mogadishu. Why waste time landing and taking off in the name of refueling? How many times would they have refueled before reaching Mogadishu? So many questions!

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  countersniper on Mon Aug 13 2012, 16:19

aggressor one wrote:
Analyst wrote:With all of these Hinds crashing and not making it to theater, i find it fishy particularly on the Ugandan side.

These helicopters were not worth action in Somalia though they all bear the insignia of AU.

From the videos of takeoff from Entebbe, i can verify zero-combat capability inside these birds.

check video http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/tv/video/LY6NK1lKufk

No strategic positions for soldiers inside to use the birds, no seats, rather an open deck inside, empty space on passenger/troop cabin, and then the zero formation when flying along the flight path.

Another worrying perspective is the state of the crashed HINDS, if they crash landed, were they broken to a state of zero resuscitation?

Why are both parties not shedding light on the state of the copters?....ok...a forensic audit on them will tell.

Uganda and Nairobi played dirty here.....Kampala might have disposed those old gunny-bags using such a ploy to have them replaced...

Its the easiest way to reap the spoils of war.


My friend analyst, the choppers that 'disappeared' were fairly newer versions of MI-24 family. All of them were MI-24PN, with night navigation capabilities. They had even been overhauled for weeks for this deployment. Your view about them not being ready for the operation may not rise.

And to make another correction, the flight path was Soroti Military Academy-eastern Uganda, landed at Eldoret, then landed at Nanyuki all in the name of refueling.

However, from the start i had reservations about flying these choppers to Somalia. My view was that they should have been dismantled and loaded on cargo planes to Mogadishu. Why waste time landing and taking off in the name of refueling? How many times would they have refueled before reaching Mogadishu? So many questions!



the flight path to Somalia in that case should only have involved one refueling stop within Kenya at nanyuki while avoiding the stop at eldoret.
in this case the planes were not armed or fully in battle mode..therefore they were in ferry mode which means a ferry flight of about 350 to 400 kms none stop.they could have have fitted external fuel tanks to increase the range much further.
to me whoever planned this trip needs to be grilled...and explain the mode of thinking.
anyway just speculating...

further more i have looked at the video of the sending of ceremony and i could see see hint of apprehension on the faces of the Ugandan force commanders present.
i hope am wrong..

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Olekoima on Mon Aug 13 2012, 17:22

aggressor one wrote:
Analyst wrote:With all of these Hinds crashing and not making it to theater, i find it fishy particularly on the Ugandan side.

These helicopters were not worth action in Somalia though they all bear the insignia of AU.

From the videos of takeoff from Entebbe, i can verify zero-combat capability inside these birds.

check video http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/tv/video/LY6NK1lKufk

No strategic positions for soldiers inside to use the birds, no seats, rather an open deck inside, empty space on passenger/troop cabin, and then the zero formation when flying along the flight path.

Another worrying perspective is the state of the crashed HINDS, if they crash landed, were they broken to a state of zero resuscitation?

Why are both parties not shedding light on the state of the copters?....ok...a forensic audit on them will tell.

Uganda and Nairobi played dirty here.....Kampala might have disposed those old gunny-bags using such a ploy to have them replaced...

Its the easiest way to reap the spoils of war.


My friend analyst, the choppers that 'disappeared' were fairly newer versions of MI-24 family. All of them were MI-24PN, with night navigation capabilities. They had even been overhauled for weeks for this deployment. Your view about them not being ready for the operation may not rise.

And to make another correction, the flight path was Soroti Military Academy-eastern Uganda, landed at Eldoret, then landed at Nanyuki all in the name of refueling.

However, from the start i had reservations about flying these choppers to Somalia. My view was that they should have been dismantled and loaded on cargo planes to Mogadishu. Why waste time landing and taking off in the name of refueling? How many times would they have refueled before reaching Mogadishu? So many questions!


Exactly my view too @"agressor one". This could have been the easier option.

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GOOD SAMARITAN PILOT RESCUES UGANDAN'S

Post  mashaa on Mon Aug 13 2012, 17:55

quoting the standard newspaper it says.......

"It appears the rescue mission has been left to one good samaritan pilot who took it up on himself to salvage the soldiers in the ill-fated helicopters. Reports quoted the Ugandan military as saying all the 28 soldiers had been rescued and are safe.

A pilot of Tropic Air Ben Simpson who had responded to emergency calls rescued them.

“The chopper crashed southern part of Mt Kenya and all the seven people on board are alive but the captain has serious back injuries,” Simpson told The Standard digital from Nanyuki airstrip.

“The chopper’s body is badly damaged but the engine is intact. The propellers shafts are gone,” Simpson said.

The officers clutching their AK 47 rifles and still in their military uniforms, they looked weary but were confident they were alive a



Simpson flew in the first batch before leaving to go rescue three others still stranded in the forest.

Kenyan military officers from the Lakipia Airbase have now moved to support evacuation mission at Nanyuki airstrip".

I hope the reporting is wrong and it was not left up to Mr Simpson to launch such a rescue mission considering all the equipment our government has at hand. Someone say it aint so.....please!

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Hard Times For The Bad Guys

Post  Olekoima on Mon Aug 13 2012, 18:12

Somalia:-

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/somalia/articles/20120813.aspx

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sierra Kilo on Mon Aug 13 2012, 18:31

mashaa wrote:quoting the standard newspaper it says.......

"It appears the rescue mission has been left to one good samaritan pilot who took it up on himself to salvage the soldiers in the ill-fated helicopters. Reports quoted the Ugandan military as saying all the 28 soldiers had been rescued and are safe.

A pilot of Tropic Air Ben Simpson who had responded to emergency calls rescued them.

“The chopper crashed southern part of Mt Kenya and all the seven people on board are alive but the captain has serious back injuries,” Simpson told The Standard digital from Nanyuki airstrip.

“The chopper’s body is badly damaged but the engine is intact. The propellers shafts are gone,” Simpson said.

The officers clutching their AK 47 rifles and still in their military uniforms, they looked weary but were confident they were alive a



Simpson flew in the first batch before leaving to go rescue three others still stranded in the forest.

Kenyan military officers from the Lakipia Airbase have now moved to support evacuation mission at Nanyuki airstrip".

I hope the reporting is wrong and it was not left up to Mr Simpson to launch such a rescue mission considering all the equipment our government has at hand. Someone say it aint so.....please!

This is the same guy that volunteered to bucket spray the forest fires atop the same mountain early this year with his Lady Lori chopper, seems that the KDF only saw the Ugandan crew at the Nanyuki Airstrip and took them to their LAB then decided to steal all the credit of a rescue from this guy. Today seems like nothing has been done and all the confusion created around these crashes is because there is nobody that has ventured out there to follow the trail, people including the journalists reporting on the issue are all doing that from the comfort of their office desks.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  jasiri on Mon Aug 13 2012, 18:43

Interloper wrote:
jasiri wrote:
KIBAKI
ORDERS evacuation of Kenyans involved in the Tanzania bus accident;
army choppers to airlift victims to Nairobi for treatment.


This new emasculated Kenya is seriously making my heart swell with pride, the accident nevertheless. Is it an opportunity to show majirani we can deploy well beyond our borders?Kibaki orders military MEDEVAC of injured in Tanzanian bus crash

Wrong choice of word... lol!
know what i said n said what i meant. Rem that bull in ur herd which used to seriously disturb the peace? that is untill mzee decided its time it dropped some goods thereafter it suddenly became docile? That's the new Kenya, More Focused n More Serious about its citizens...after some goods zimeangushwa

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  jasiri on Mon Aug 13 2012, 18:57

@Aggressor 1, Soroti Military academy one n the same with SOROTI flying school?
For a moment i thot this whole story was made up while the choppers safely got to ZOOMALIYA n started shelling the Kebabs, esp after "2 out of three crashed, then 3 out of 4 crshed, then all found, then 2 still missing"..now not so. One Thing i can't understand though, from 2200hrs jana when citizen broke the news til now, how do 3 helicopters crash? Beats every logical n illogical explanations i can come up with. all that said...Poleni to kina Spartan, Crane n Aggressor..lets hope the others are alive and okay.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  countersniper on Mon Aug 13 2012, 19:16

have you heard this one? some crazy blogger on that stupid blog on nipate,.com is claiming that those choppers were brought down by Kenyan air defense elements after they were detected without explanation in Kenyan territory.this is baloney!!!
KDF must call up a press conference and tell the public what really happened.
there is too much speculation and secrets in this maneno..even colonel oguna seemed to be caught napping...
either kdf WAS CAUGHT NAPPING OR THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.

....there s confusion where the choppers first landed for refueling.
was it Kisumu or Eldoret first?


AND YOU KNOW what ??? i can see a classic CYA scenario taking place in this fast unraveling maneno.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  jasiri on Mon Aug 13 2012, 19:22

@jas. Check out the new Yankee one-two, F series a.k.a aircar http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/12/y-12f-tactical-stol-prototype-001.html
This one looks nice, retractable landing gear and glass cockpit. The Woo family is serious in this military maneno mara hii...Still doesn't pull me from the DHC-8 though
Laughing

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this doesnt look right

Post  Guest on Mon Aug 13 2012, 19:23

I still don't believe this story of 3 choppers coming down at once. Is this propaganda?aircraft are designed to be extremely reliable and the probabilty of 3 choppers crashing due to mechanical reasons in the whole world on the same week is very low.there is something we are not being told.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  cylon on Mon Aug 13 2012, 19:38

countersniper wrote:
cylon wrote:
Risasi wrote:
cylon wrote:
countersniper wrote:
cylon wrote:
jasiri wrote:
KIBAKI
ORDERS evacuation of Kenyans involved in the Tanzania bus accident;
army choppers to airlift victims to Nairobi for treatment.


This new emasculated Kenya is seriously making my heart swell with pride, the accident nevertheless. Is it an opportunity to show majirani we can deploy well beyond our borders?Kibaki orders military MEDEVAC of injured in Tanzanian bus crash

KDF-AF should invest in buying 2 or 3 medivac choppers

@Risasi is KDF looking to buy more Z-w9 helicopters??? And the one that crashed in Liboi was it ever replaced??

cylon

in case you are not aware ..KDF has enough PUMA helicopters for use as medivac air ambulances


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya_Air_Force


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=kenya+air+force&hl=en&client=firefox-beta&hs=2Rf&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=3pwlUNbvK4qe0QXu2IGoCg&ved=0CFcQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=598

as far as i knew there are five of which can be configured to medivac status at short notice.
also the four permanent VIP transport choppers usually reserved for the CinC and other special needs transport can be used.
this is why i believe president kibaki gave the order for the military to evacuate the injured kenya because he is aware of the available equipment.
my worry is the reaction of those Tanzanians seing a fleet of choppers suddenly appear over their airspace...ANYWAY AM SURE CLEARANCE WILL BE OBTAINED before mission execution

Yes, i know about the puma's but some of them are unserviceable and cost a lot of money to repair them in SA. Even the Mil17 could be converted to a full medicav if the KDF-AF wanted to do so. The Injured were airlifted by a kenyan government VIP ATR-72 transport a puma or mil17 that brought them home, I was watching the clip on youtube and i was appalled that the media showed no consideration to the distraught survivors and injured and flim from a respected distant instead of crowding the plane like flies.... Any incursions into TZ airspace would get an early notification so we don't get our planes chewed out by their SAM batteries....

ATR?? Very Happy Both aircrafts were Canadian De Havilland crafts. ATR are franco-Italian. Any way I can understand you because both aircrafts look similar on screen with similar features, a high “T” tail shaped rudder. In fact they are competing for the same niche in the aviation market.

The first lot came in with a V.I.P wing DHC-8 Dash8, the lightly injured and first aid cases and the “old Lady” DHC-5 buffalo in its Medivac capacity (24 stretchers, equipments and Para Medic staff) brought in the wounded on stretches.

Choppers would be slow for that distance.

Medivac are conducted by KAf time to time for wounded personnel, funeral transportation on compassionate and emergency grounds I would say but you don’t get to hear about it I admit. a good friend and a mentor , an Airforce 1 pilot Col.James XXXX one time commanded a Yankee one-two to pick his ailing and frail father from a dusty air strip in central Kenya to MAB. ya it was official, a nod from the Air force CDR.

@cyclon more ZW-9 will arrive in due time including several utility versions and a H425 VIP version. The ZW-9 will be the “running shoes” for KDF-AF rotary wing.

@jas. Check out the new Yankee one-two, F series a.k.a aircar http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/12/y-12f-tactical-stol-prototype-001.html


Great to hear that more ZW-9's are on the way, By the way the AP's got there first chopper today the Bell 407 which i say is a pretty good chopper for patrols etc. The recce boys must favor that chopper over the md-500, By the way looks like the SIN blog is reporting that KDF is smoking alshabab from its defense by shelling their defensive points and many of them are fleeing...The fall of kismayo is nearing

the bell chopper for the AP As shown is just a glorified flying taxi to carry ten men lightly armed to far off stations.it cannot defend itself ..even a single man with a well aimed AK 47 WILL BRING IT DOWN.

give me an MD 500 fully armed with its anti tank weapons and other guns ...boy come baby come....IAM GAME ON....

The bell is going to be customized with high tech cameras and armaments so the AP boys will be safe to say....

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  jasiri on Mon Aug 13 2012, 19:55

Pics starting to filter in..


looks like this armoured behemoth sustained quite an impact.
@C.Sniper, they came in from Eldoret, guys report em flying low over Eldoret farmlands.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Risasi on Mon Aug 13 2012, 19:56

@countersniper the aircraft were in a planned and stipulated flight route and they was no need to escort or follow them along as you suggested.

We believe that the pilots were professionals and responsible to transiting our air space to their preplanned destination without veer of the predetermined corridor.

The birds flew out from LAB in a 4 bird formation in a predetermined route and around Mt.Kenya region one bird developed its master caution alarms and was in constant comm with LAB ATC. its emergency landing and the state it went down seemed to have disorientated the other 3 into a panic mode pushing the throttle form more fuel to cover more distance to familiar locations i.e FOB wajir rather than be trapped in our notorious NFD.

That extra pushing of the birds might have consumed more fuel or might have revealed underlying problems to surface.

Let’s wait for the report.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Batian on Mon Aug 13 2012, 20:01

what a headstrong attempt, three choppers down at one go. 28 soldiers with minor bruises
does not fit squarely as a fairy tale ending. is this maintenance or fuel?' doesn't look different from CYS Maneno.
@jasiri i was stuttled with the pilots COMM disconnect with kdf , does this expose a fried COVERT OP pirat


Last edited by Batian on Mon Aug 13 2012, 20:18; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  countersniper on Mon Aug 13 2012, 20:12

Risasi wrote:@countersniper the aircraft were in a planned and stipulated flight route and they was no need to escort or follow them along as you suggested.

We believe that the pilots were professionals and responsible to transiting our air space to their preplanned destination without veer of the predetermined corridor.

The birds flew out from LAB in a 4 bird formation in a predetermined route and around Mt.Kenya region one bird developed its master caution alarms and was in constant comm with LAB ATC. its emergency landing and the state it went down seemed to have disorientated the other 3 into a panic mode pushing the throttle form more fuel to cover more distance to familiar locations i.e FOB wajir rather than be trapped in our notorious NFD.

That extra pushing of the birds might have consumed more fuel or might have revealed underlying problems to surface.

Let’s wait for the report.

it is worth alot in terms public perception if KDF comes up quickly with a press conference to fully brief the media and public to explain what happened
there is too much speculation and rumor which is not good at all it shows lack of professionalism in handling this incident.
why the secrecy?we all know we are at war with alshabab dam it

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Guest on Mon Aug 13 2012, 20:38

Absolutely right @C.sniper. But even more so to give correct and factual Briefs. The KDF way is a controlled dissemination of factual information.

Surely you wouldn't want us to put out half baked statements that we correct later with contradictions? Such as you have read all day from Col. Oguna's opposite in Kampala.

Hold on abit. We shall all know soon enough WTF happened here!

countersniper wrote:
Risasi wrote:@countersniper the aircraft were in a planned and stipulated flight route and they was no need to escort or follow them along as you suggested.

We believe that the pilots were professionals and responsible to transiting our air space to their preplanned destination without veer of the predetermined corridor.

The birds flew out from LAB in a 4 bird formation in a predetermined route and around Mt.Kenya region one bird developed its master caution alarms and was in constant comm with LAB ATC. its emergency landing and the state it went down seemed to have disorientated the other 3 into a panic mode pushing the throttle form more fuel to cover more distance to familiar locations i.e FOB wajir rather than be trapped in our notorious NFD.

That extra pushing of the birds might have consumed more fuel or might have revealed underlying problems to surface.

Let’s wait for the report.

it is worth alot in terms public perception if KDF comes up quickly with a press conference to fully brief the media and public to explain what happened
there is too much speculation and rumor which is not good at all it shows lack of professionalism in handling this incident.
why the secrecy?we all know we are at war with alshabab dam it

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  cylon on Mon Aug 13 2012, 20:59

Will we see the mil-28's enter the battle for chai.....

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  proud kenyan on Mon Aug 13 2012, 21:36

Risasi wrote:@countersniper the aircraft were in a planned and stipulated flight route and they was no need to escort or follow them along as you suggested.

We believe that the pilots were professionals and responsible to transiting our air space to their preplanned destination without veer of the predetermined corridor.

The birds flew out from LAB in a 4 bird formation in a predetermined route and around Mt.Kenya region one bird developed its master caution alarms and was in constant comm with LAB ATC. its emergency landing and the state it went down seemed to have disorientated the other 3 into a panic mode pushing the throttle form more fuel to cover more distance to familiar locations i.e FOB wajir rather than be trapped in our notorious NFD.

That extra pushing of the birds might have consumed more fuel or might have revealed underlying problems to surface.

Let’s wait for the report.
i agree with @Risasi there..if the KDF try to explain what happened and it differs with what UPDF says,more questions than answers will be asked.furthermore, though the birds were flying through kenyana,they weren't our property,and neither were KDF personnel flying them.
but from the footage of their takeoff from entebee,the guys around the birds were too pedestrian,to the point of almost forgetting to salute their commanders..so the question is: who or what trained them in general,and also for their mission in zoomaliya

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Observer on Mon Aug 13 2012, 23:44

proud kenyan wrote:
Risasi wrote:@countersniper the aircraft were in a planned and stipulated flight route and they was no need to escort or follow them along as you suggested.

We believe that the pilots were professionals and responsible to transiting our air space to their preplanned destination without veer of the predetermined corridor.

The birds flew out from LAB in a 4 bird formation in a predetermined route and around Mt.Kenya region one bird developed its master caution alarms and was in constant comm with LAB ATC. its emergency landing and the state it went down seemed to have disorientated the other 3 into a panic mode pushing the throttle form more fuel to cover more distance to familiar locations i.e FOB wajir rather than be trapped in our notorious NFD.

That extra pushing of the birds might have consumed more fuel or might have revealed underlying problems to surface.

Let’s wait for the report.
i agree with @Risasi there..if the KDF try to explain what happened and it differs with what UPDF says,more questions than answers will be asked.furthermore, though the birds were flying through kenyana,they weren't our property,and neither were KDF personnel flying them.
but from the footage of their takeoff from entebee,the guys around the birds were too pedestrian,to the point of almost forgetting to salute their commanders..so the question is: who or what trained them in general,and also for their mission in zoomaliya

it appears the Simpson guy being a "veteran" of the area may have homed in on the distress call and found the chopper first ... word gets out to Al Jazeera and they hire the guy to get the scoop ... but the KWS are also on que and also get to the site with the Simpson guy ... KDF with the Puma also get in the mix but can't land coz of the terrain, so it's upto the Simpson guy, KWS personel and the journalists to rescue the soldiers who are fit for the first flight ... the Puma keeps watch, the second batch including the injured soldier are flown strait to LAB ... if you ask me KDf and GOK were on top of things just a case of the simpson guy coming in handy ... i agree the situation requires a cordinated response coz of it's sensitivity, but as always the Kenyan media will throw in their "kiherehere" not caring to find out what's going on site and behind the scenes, they just run with the lead and end up causing more speculation than reason.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  aggressor one on Tue Aug 14 2012, 08:23

proud kenyan wrote:
Risasi wrote:@countersniper the aircraft were in a planned and stipulated flight route and they was no need to escort or follow them along as you suggested.

We believe that the pilots were professionals and responsible to transiting our air space to their preplanned destination without veer of the predetermined corridor.

The birds flew out from LAB in a 4 bird formation in a predetermined route and around Mt.Kenya region one bird developed its master caution alarms and was in constant comm with LAB ATC. its emergency landing and the state it went down seemed to have disorientated the other 3 into a panic mode pushing the throttle form more fuel to cover more distance to familiar locations i.e FOB wajir rather than be trapped in our notorious NFD.

That extra pushing of the birds might have consumed more fuel or might have revealed underlying problems to surface.

Let’s wait for the report.
i agree with @Risasi there..if the KDF try to explain what happened and it differs with what UPDF says,more questions than answers will be asked.furthermore, though the birds were flying through kenyana,they weren't our property,and neither were KDF personnel flying them.
but from the footage of their takeoff from entebee,the guys around the birds were too pedestrian,to the point of almost forgetting to salute their commanders..so the question is: who or what trained them in general,and also for their mission in zoomaliya

The pilot of the 'recovered' chopper was Lt-Colonel Chris Kaija, whose flying experience spans over 20 years. He has trained in numerous countries including Russia and Ukraine and above all he was the deployed commander of the Air elements in Somalia. His knowledge therefore is not doubted.

Just like Kaija, most of the other crew were veterans of Uganda`s airforce-some as old as the Amin years, trained numerously and garnered hundreds of flying hours.

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Foul Play on the HINDS issue

Post  Analyst on Tue Aug 14 2012, 09:00


I have read and re-read the standard story on these UPDF- HINDS and everything falls into place

This is a botched operation.

Could General Karangi's words some time ago...."some players in the theater want a piece of Kismayu almost by force!" have had meaning?

This scramble for Kismayu to an extent of scrambling helicopters to fly almost 1000-kilometers is suspect.

If the UPDF wanted to provide aerial support to its troops under AMISOM, it could have been better outsourcing 5-MD-500 from KDF 50ACB and for heavy aerial fire-power, use at-least 2 of KDF's Z-9WE anti-armor attack helicopter's?

KDF has plenty of these if at all AMISOM is a joint task force for the Somali liberation.

KDF Slow response to the rescue mission.
Zero intel on the whereabouts of the two helicopters.
Did those pilots have cellphones?
Did they have flares to fire in-case of distress?
Did they fire tracers at night to signal their position?


I once managed to trek through mount Kenya forest alongside some guys through Castle forest, past Castle Mountain Logde to Meru, (there is always some kind of transport on the other side due to zero bridges...you have to walk and cross ) the following day we left the Meru side and went to Nanyuki via a route where we found this small lodge called BlueLine....

As such combing Mt Kenya's slopes is rather not as technical as mentioned in the media, regardless of the weather.
The mountain clears from 6am and by 10-am, its a very beautiful scene.

How did villagers manage to put out the fire in the forest this year?.......not by helicopters.

As such, we have our answers.....THIS THING OF 3 HELICOPTERS IN AN OPS FORMATION, GOING OUT OF RADAR AND RADIO COMM IS NOT JUST WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. THERE IS MORE MANENO'S TO IT THAN WHAT THE MEDIA AND ONGERI ARE TELLING US.



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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  aggressor one on Tue Aug 14 2012, 09:27

Analyst wrote:
I have read and re-read the standard story on these UPDF- HINDS and everything falls into place

This is a botched operation.

Could General Karangi's words some time ago...."some players in the theater want a piece of Kismayu almost by force!" have had meaning?

This scramble for Kismayu to an extent of scrambling helicopters to fly almost 1000-kilometers is suspect.

If the UPDF wanted to provide aerial support to its troops under AMISOM, it could have been better outsourcing 5-MD-500 from KDF 50ACB and for heavy aerial fire-power, use at-least 2 of KDF's Z-9WE anti-armor attack helicopter's?

KDF has plenty of these if at all AMISOM is a joint task force for the Somali liberation.

KDF Slow response to the rescue mission.
Zero intel on the whereabouts of the two helicopters.
Did those pilots have cellphones?
Did they have flares to fire in-case of distress?
Did they fire tracers at night to signal their position?


I once managed to trek through mount Kenya forest alongside some guys through Castle forest, past Castle Mountain Logde to Meru, (there is always some kind of transport on the other side due to zero bridges...you have to walk and cross ) the following day we left the Meru side and went to Nanyuki via a route where we found this small lodge called BlueLine....

As such combing Mt Kenya's slopes is rather not as technical as mentioned in the media, regardless of the weather.
The mountain clears from 6am and by 10-am, its a very beautiful scene.

How did villagers manage to put out the fire in the forest this year?.......not by helicopters.

As such, we have our answers.....THIS THING OF 3 HELICOPTERS IN AN OPS FORMATION, GOING OUT OF RADAR AND RADIO COMM IS NOT JUST WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. THERE IS MORE MANENO'S TO IT THAN WHAT THE MEDIA AND ONGERI ARE TELLING US.



Analyst, like u are saying, there are more questions than answers and certainly more questions for the Kenyan military. How can choppers that had just taken off from Nanyuki simply disappear? How can three choppers 'get engine failure' at the same time and after that two disappear? I bet radar or something like it must have been monitoring the flight path of the choppers so why did`nt this radar note the time they disappeared and locations? Then the most important question-What type of fuel was pumped into these choppers to make their engines fail between Nanyuki and Garissa?

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Analyst on Tue Aug 14 2012, 09:46

Aggressor-1.....

i read you.....i have been combing through all reliable leads on this story and i have sadly found out that the efforts in place to save the rest of the 2- are either not on course, or there no such efforts at all.

The Standard story makes sense from the WallStreet Journal report here http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444772404577586683499023426.html

If that scenario plays out, then the 2-copters either burnt to ground, or managed to fly to Somalia..which is way off the mark...Uganda could have confirmed this already.

The third scenario is 'A BOTCHED OPERATION'......Kampala and Nairobi might be up-to something fishy here
KDF shooting them down or sabotaging the copters is a-bit too pragmatic unless the UPDF crews violated OPS/SEC....breached protocols when at LAB....eg..took pics of LAB and assets of KDF.

I dont want to dig too deep but this issues is too broad not just an air accident.

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UPDF Downed Hinds Crashed and Burned

Post  Analyst on Tue Aug 14 2012, 10:07


Kenya military officials confirms the discovery of burnt wreckage of the two UPDF Mil 24 Attack helicopters

No crew found yet

Mil's burnt.

However....am yet to believe this since Ugandan Generals confirm that the 2-copters crash-landed near Somalia

Read these latest stories and deduce the lack of professionalism in our military media experts or incompetency in our forces altogether!

http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/634099-Missing-choppers--Uganda--Kenya-join-forces-in-search.html
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/three-ugandan-helicopters-lost-in-kenya/story-fn3dxix6-1226449562687
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444772404577586683499023426.html


So is KDF right the 2-crashed and burned?...or are the Ugandans right...2-choppers hard-landed somewhere near Somalia?

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  mogen on Tue Aug 14 2012, 10:55

Analyst wrote:
Kenya military officials confirms the discovery of burnt wreckage of the two UPDF Mil 24 Attack helicopters

No crew found yet

Mil's burnt.

However....am yet to believe this since Ugandan Generals confirm that the 2-copters crash-landed near Somalia

Read these latest stories and deduce the lack of professionalism in our military media experts or incompetency in our forces altogether!

http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/634099-Missing-choppers--Uganda--Kenya-join-forces-in-search.html
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/three-ugandan-helicopters-lost-in-kenya/story-fn3dxix6-1226449562687
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444772404577586683499023426.html


So is KDF right the 2-crashed and burned?...or are the Ugandans right...2-choppers hard-landed somewhere near Somalia?

Wreckage of Uganda helicopters found

"...one of the helicopters was burnt and the other was seen overturned...fate of the crew ...unknown..."

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/Wreckage+of+Uganda+helicopters+found/-/1056/1478798/-/bkxsrwz/-/index.html

The most logical possibility/likelihood was all choppers crash landed in Mt Kenya forest. But, where did the soldiers go?

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  countersniper on Tue Aug 14 2012, 11:33

the most baffling thing about the whole story is the reaction time and first press release by KDF officials

they claim the choppers were maintaining radio silence while in formation.

1)i would have thought that while within Kenyan airspace which is safe this was not necessary. the crew should have made at least ten minute or half hourly radio check calls by radioing the operation leader chopper or mother base back home.. especially after they left nanyuki for garissa until the last fuel stop ..then maybe half an hour before entering somalia airspace they could have activated the radio silence protocol because they were essentially approaching enemy territory

2)The group of first survivors managed to send out an SOS....now they claim they could see KDF puma choppers hovering over their crash site..so why did they not send out flares which are standard safety equipment in any military aircraft?
furthermore the crew have personal mobile phones.. even though the area had no mobile phone coverage..it is my understanding that a mobile phone device can generate powerful signals once you press the emergency call button which can be at least received somewhere including overhead communication satelights..i should think

this explains why the aljazeera news crew were able to get the first SOS from the captain while in Nairobi, And apparently went to the site with that Chris Simpson even before KDF found the wreckage.

one more thing the SOS was sent out immediately after the crash just before or after 5pm. and yet the first rescue team arrived on the scene 18 hours later the following day.
what was kdf doing?

3) colonel oguna did not have a clue what was happening. he only said he was aware that some choppers were being sent by Uganda to somali but he dd not know if they had already started their movement..and yet we are told these choppers landed in two Kenyan major towns while refueling before finally crushing in mt Kenya. i suppose this is the reason Bongita is doing all the talking...CLASSIC COVER MY ARSSE SITUATION.

to me these choppers should have been escorted by at least some experienced Kenyan crew to track their movements for reasons of national security until they left Kenyan airspace.leaving armed foreign choppers loitering our airspace without tracking them is very troubling.

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Kenyan chief of defence forces General Karangi speaks about the UPDF crash NOW

Post  countersniper on Tue Aug 14 2012, 12:52

http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/tv/video/FEzcjqyrPGQ/karangi-speaks-on-crashed-ugandan-helicopters.html

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sierra Kilo on Tue Aug 14 2012, 12:58

countersniper wrote:leaving armed foreign choppers loitering our airspace without tracking them is very troubling.

@countersniper, very valid Qs that need As. Also that a civilian pilot can conduct search and rescue on what is a military incident is very disturbing

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

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