Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

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AMISOM mandate et al

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 08 2012, 18:28

Couple of worrisome developments in Theater Zoomaliya.

1. UNSC has extended our Mandate but only for four Months starting November.

2. UNSC has rejected AU recommendations to incorporate KDF-Navy to the AMISOM Mandate.

On both these two, France (in Djibouti) led two other European Nations to shoot down earlier agreements in the 15member Council.

3. Jubbaland has asserted very forcefully and explicitly this week its independence from the macro-control of Mogadishu, huddling behind the Federal Charter. Of course it is clear where KDF stands on the matter (OLN remains our over-riding strategic objective).

Charcoal sales controversy, an earlier visit to Chai Town by the outgoing Federal Defense Minister that went vibaya, the truncated AMISOM Mandate, failed inspection visit by Federal Officials to Chai Town, France and European sabotage of AMISOM Mandate - all interlocked and growing.

Okay, friends. Your analysis of this situations from geopolitical realism. How do you project the Zoomaliya Mission? Strategic Considerations, both political and Military.

The game is changing. We need to adopt to maintain initiative.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  tempest on Thu Nov 08 2012, 22:18


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  areba on Thu Nov 08 2012, 23:51

gash wrote:
I was just wondering how far is KDF integrated to ICT.I was just reading an article that for almost all chinese millitary men undergo computer training. Razz Mad
lets just say, Very... and this comes from a certified geek...

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  areba on Fri Nov 09 2012, 00:07

ole Nkarei wrote:Couple of worrisome developments in Theater Zoomaliya.

1. UNSC has extended our Mandate but only for four Months starting November.

2. UNSC has rejected AU recommendations to incorporate KDF-Navy to the AMISOM Mandate.

On both these two, France (in Djibouti) led two other European Nations to shoot down earlier agreements in the 15member Council.

3. Jubbaland has asserted very forcefully and explicitly this week its independence from the macro-control of Mogadishu, huddling behind the Federal Charter. Of course it is clear where KDF stands on the matter (OLN remains our over-riding strategic objective).

Charcoal sales controversy, an earlier visit to Chai Town by the outgoing Federal Defense Minister that went vibaya, the truncated AMISOM Mandate, failed inspection visit by Federal Officials to Chai Town, France and European sabotage of AMISOM Mandate - all interlocked and growing.

Okay, friends. Your analysis of this situations from geopolitical realism. How do you project the Zoomaliya Mission? Strategic Considerations, both political and Military.

The game is changing. We need to adopt to maintain initiative.

Me thinks our objective with regard to azania has never changed. They are damned if they support us, they are damned if they dont. Chai tunakunywa on our terms.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Fabrizio on Fri Nov 09 2012, 03:53

AMISOM has released a statement about charcoal exports. Someone explain this to me. Was the ban on the trade targeting Al-Shabab or the people of Kismayo in general? What does anyone have to gain by strangling Kismayo following its capture by "friendly" forces? A few things are not adding up.
PRESS RELEASE

AMISOM Statement on the Issue of Charcoal

AMISOM regrets reports that charcoal is being exported out of Somalia in violation of United Nations Security Council resolution 2036 and Somali national law.

Although AMISOM is not mandated to scrutinize commercial activities in Somalia, the Mission is cognizant of its responsibilities in contributing to restore peace, security and law and order in the country.

In this regard, AMISOM reaffirms its commitment to support the Federal Government of Somalia in its efforts to stamp out this illegal trade in charcoal.

AMISOM welcomes the Somali government’s decision in forming a Task Force to deal with the issue. The Mission will fully cooperate with the Task Force and do all that it is necessary to facilitate it s work.
http://amisom-au.org/2012/11/amisom-statement-on-the-issue-of-charcoal/

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  areba on Fri Nov 09 2012, 08:25

Has it occured to anyone that charcoal could be trading out of somalia because there is no maritime component of AMISOM's Operations as per the recent days?

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 09 2012, 08:38

Fabrizio wrote:AMISOM has released a statement about charcoal exports. Someone explain this to me. Was the ban on the trade targeting Al-Shabab or the people of Kismayo in general? What does anyone have to gain by strangling Kismayo following its capture by "friendly" forces? A few things are not adding up.
PRESS RELEASE

AMISOM Statement on the Issue of Charcoal

AMISOM regrets reports that charcoal is being exported out of Somalia in violation of United Nations Security Council resolution 2036 and Somali national law.

Although AMISOM is not mandated to scrutinize commercial activities in Somalia, the Mission is cognizant of its responsibilities in contributing to restore peace, security and law and order in the country.

In this regard, AMISOM reaffirms its commitment to support the Federal Government of Somalia in its efforts to stamp out this illegal trade in charcoal.

AMISOM welcomes the Somali government’s decision in forming a Task Force to deal with the issue. The Mission will fully cooperate with the Task Force and do all that it is necessary to facilitate it s work.
http://amisom-au.org/2012/11/amisom-statement-on-the-issue-of-charcoal/

The Charcoal Controversy is merely a symptom of the conundrum that this AMISOM Mandate has become. Read my last post and see if you can find the interlock of events this week.

Three weeks ago Sector II Theater Commander Brigadier Ngere issued a statement urging suspension of the Charcoal ban to dispose of the huge stockpile. KDoD cleverly dogged questions from international medua as to whether this awkward and earth-shuttering statement was officially AMISOM and GoK, positing it was from the lead-command in-theater and authoritative. Make no mistake - that was a GoK statement from the highest levels political/military wearing KDF-DPMs.

Somalia as moslems and from cultural practices do not increase their wealth in the manner western commercial practices. No interest on lending and little formal banking of receipts. Families pool resources and designate a management team of it. And into clan-pooled resources. They share the proceeds in proportion to contribution. What these pooled funds are used for very few contributors know nor choose. So that Piracy Banditry Criminal enterprise may be made by "innocent" civilians without their knowledge or accord. When Alshabab was the dominant / only authority of governance in Central and South Zoomaliya, it iw inevitable that civilians facilitated Alshabaab operations through taxes or mulitiplier-financing of Alshabaab activities either willingly, blindly or by coercion.

That stockpile of 25million bags represents venture resources of thousands of ordinary poor families in South and Central Zoomaliya. Precious savings of a people whose survival is truly defendant on this stockpile. This singular matter has capacity to rally the population of Jubbaland either for post-AS or driven them right back to Alshabaab. And thatbishe huge "Trojan Horse" that Alkebabs planted for us in Kismaayu.

The new Zoomaliya President finds the Federal Charter working against his intention to assert greater powers over the regions which the Charter doesn't grant him. And the Regions have ganged up in defiance to him - Puntland and Somaliland issued very categorical statements recently in support of the Jubbaland initiative fir autonomy and asking Federal government to stay faithful to the Federal Charter which provides for regional autonomy within the Federal State.

Of course a federal State will wield reuced powers in reconstruction of the regions and share authority over the extraction of the mineral wealth in the regions. Which works against the intentions of Western conglomerates that have intentions on the reconstruction and mining of Zoomaliya. The Federal Charter favors a shift towards EAC as Jubbaland attaches to Kenya and both Puntland and Somaliland gravitates to Ethiopia.

Do the 'Dots' now connect?

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MAKAA CHISMAYU

Post  The Blue on Fri Nov 09 2012, 09:39

The clans should be allowed to export their charcoal stockpiles to recoup their investments already sunk into the inventory. How to monitor the export and ensure fairness so that some witty kebab does not use the ensuing confusion to sow discord and disquiet within the population with some stake in the makaa is what will be the real headache.

A proposition would be to allow the cobbled up civilian administration to organize an export with consultation of the affected clan elders. A semblance of an open tender would do. However, even after the tender is done and all the bearded elders are happy and waiting to load their cargo, how do we maneuver the AMISOM minefield? After we re-hated, our hands are tied and we cannot enforce the wishes of the Chismayans to deal with their makaa as they see fit without being twangwad with the big stick of UNSC and AMISOM oversight and other hawkish fellows lurking in the shadows. This is what shemeji Spartan warned us about, the incapacitating AMISOM charter that gives you a license to hunt but not to keep your trophies. This chai is now becoming sour Uji bila a dash of mumias sugar.


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 09 2012, 10:20

Alshabaabt is not an Ideology. Neither a culture nor a religion. There is not one Zoomaliyan who dealt with Alshabaab from rational choice. Zoomaliyans are not irreparably in Alshabaab neither.

Alshabaab established. Itself over the Zoomaliya people by force of arms and ensured their monopoly over the means to violence - until AMISOM arrived with an ideology and superior means to violence.

AMISOM must not and will not criminalize the citizenship of Zoomaliya. We must release these people fully and unconditionally from the shackles of Alshabaab that we smashed. Then these people will of their own violation buy a stake in the new dispensation.

The Western powers are using a fear of the fragmentation of Zoomaliya into spheres under the TCC as a mask for their fear of loss of theer control over the resources of Zoomaliya. They have invested billions in AMISOM with notion the AMISOM were merely UNSC-sanctioned mercenaries easily manipulated and without geopolitical interests in Zoomaliya. M7 threat of withdrawal reminds them and the new Federal president just how exposed they are, and more...

But the TCC/IGAD have invested blood and guts in AMISOM and for which justification was regional-wide peace for development and integration. The Federal President is playing us against these Western/EU powers.

Establishing Jubbaland is near complete politically. And it has legal force of the Federal Charter.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  proud kenyan on Fri Nov 09 2012, 12:30

ole Nkarei wrote:Alshabaabt is not an Ideology. Neither a culture nor a religion. There is not one Zoomaliyan who dealt with Alshabaab from rational choice. Zoomaliyans are not irreparably in Alshabaab neither.

Alshabaab established. Itself over the Zoomaliya people by force of arms and ensured their monopoly over the means to violence - until AMISOM arrived with an ideology and superior means to violence.

AMISOM must not and will not criminalize the citizenship of Zoomaliya. We must release these people fully and unconditionally from the shackles of Alshabaab that we smashed. Then these people will of their own violation buy a stake in the new dispensation.

The Western powers are using a fear of the fragmentation of Zoomaliya into spheres under the TCC as a mask for their fear of loss of theer control over the resources of Zoomaliya. They have invested billions in AMISOM with notion the AMISOM were merely UNSC-sanctioned mercenaries easily manipulated and without geopolitical interests in Zoomaliya. M7 threat of withdrawal reminds them and the new Federal president just how exposed they are, and more...

But the TCC/IGAD have invested blood and guts in AMISOM and for which justification was regional-wide peace for development and integration. The Federal President is playing us against these Western/EU powers.

Establishing Jubbaland is near complete politically. And it has legal force of the Federal Charter.
AMISOM can claim to have no powers over the sea,as claimed by a forummer above,since there is no naval component.also some components of sector 2 were not sanctioned by amisom eg the air cover and i believe to some extent the combat engineers and the general engineers,but they are still there.the good thing about OLN plan combined with the amisom re-hat was that when amisom became complicated waters to manouvre, there was the fall back plan (OLN).the amisom financiers would then start finger pointing towards KDF the same way they did at the beginning of OLN. the federal president i believe is trying to ensure that if UGABAG's threat to withdraw from theatre comes to fruition,he would have a safe place to run off to,and which would be legally obliged to respect his presidency(chai town) and have direct control of the powers that run chai town.
the charcoal maneno would be navigated safely eventually since the political process of jubbaland is almost complete(ON's words),first order of business would be how to and where to get revenues for running the state.
what happened to the vicker tanks conversion to APC discussion? my two cents worth is that the two discussions can run simultaneously and the exiled forummers would return in droves.plus it would create some sort of helpful break that would stimulate minds especially on @ON's discussions.

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UNSC extended our Mandate but only for four Months starting November.

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 09 2012, 15:19

ole Nkarei wrote:Couple of worrisome developments in Theater Zoomaliya.

1. UNSC has extended our Mandate but only for four Months starting November.

2. UNSC has rejected AU recommendations to incorporate KDF-Navy to the AMISOM Mandate.

On both these two, France (in Djibouti) led two other European Nations to shoot down earlier agreements in the 15member Council.

3. Jubbaland has asserted very forcefully and explicitly this week its independence from the macro-control of Mogadishu, huddling behind the Federal Charter. Of course it is clear where KDF stands on the matter (OLN remains our over-riding strategic objective).

Charcoal sales controversy, an earlier visit to Chai Town by the outgoing Federal Defense Minister that went vibaya, the truncated AMISOM Mandate, failed inspection visit by Federal Officials to Chai Town, France and European sabotage of AMISOM Mandate - all interlocked and growing.

Okay, friends. Your analysis of this situations from geopolitical realism. How do you project the Zoomaliya Mission? Strategic Considerations, both political and Military.

The game is changing. We need to adopt to maintain initiative.

I salute'
Methinks there's more to come (actually for the worse) in this Zom theatre...never before has UNSC extended any mandate by less than 12months, it's cynical they ext by 4months. They now want to dictate evry decision & outcome in that land. They plan to get rid of all active (& interested) players but in a very skillful way without losing the current gains.
With all due respect to their(Big 5) contributions towards this mandate, one more agenda is very clear..control of zom, zom resources & mapping of geo politics in the long run.
Now that Alkebs have been drawn out (abt 90% of the threat), the remaining tasks (as per them) can actualy be done by the blue berets but with an enforcement element when needed. My fear is they are out to frustrate the current Amisom composition or force them stay albeit with arm-twisting. They need to stamp their authority by having their agenda run thru the new govt & all political commands something they've have not yet managed. GoK has really shaped the OLN-Jubaland zone with chai town the heart of maneno.....you all know GoK is very east aligned, & with 'chingchong' about to welcome a new regime hungry for resources than ever before. The 'chingchong' can only & securely have their foothold in Zoom esp thru GoK & that makes the big 5 uneasy.
Gok,Ug & Eth call the shots in Zoomalia & that makes a good breeding ground for the east brothers to shape their geo interest.
By frustrating the main actors(read UNSC report on Ug, KDF-Navy unaccomodated, Chacoal sale ban stay), the big 5 are actualy saying they don't need the current structure having done the dirty job...& i won't b surprised if a plan to insert Blue berrets with EAC component kept out!! my one cent

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Admin on Fri Nov 09 2012, 21:08

The polls result is out, and both motions have pass. The PICTORIAL PAGE is up, for the Som ops page , kindly submit appropriate names for the topic at the notice board page
Regards
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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 10 2012, 12:57

Friday the arrogance of the Europeans in the UNSC just went beyond their usual neocolonial pretensions. They told M7 they would not amend nor withdraw that offensive "experts" M23 report. Look, it is not that the report lacks factual basis but more that these facts are manipulated and embellished and composite of some of them distorted out of prevailing context; the motive and composition of the "experts" - there is no vacuum in Kivu and Ituri, and we too have Assets in that Sector, dammit!

Now, because they hold the purse-strings over AMISOM in an operation of survival-importance to this entire region, the Europeans are telling this story as they did announce the "discoveries" of Mt Kili, Mt. Kenya, source of the Nile and other wonders Africans had lived with for millenia.

M7 responds by calmly restarting (Minister Forex Okello) he will abandon Zoomaliya Darfur DRC to the Europeans if they don't allow the whole story of Kivu and Ituri to be correctly told. Never been more resolute, the wiry General. I doubt the Europeans have the guts to insert their soldiers into Zoomaliya neither will another African Nation accept the thankless task of dying for them.

Meantime all of Jubbaland has risen in defiance to Mogadishu macro-oversight. Numerous demonstrations in several towns in Gedo central and lower Jubba, including Kismayu yesterday. A Mogadishu Government delegation to kismayu was deported back to Mogadishu yesterday upon arrival without "notification".

An Africa Union Plot in Zoomaliya is fast unravelling. If we are to secure Zoomaliya friom imminent disintegration we must stand with Uganda regardless of other considerations and maintain the integrity of AMISOM in its present tasking and structure.

Finally, my appeal to forummers to freshen-out their profiles without breaking cover!?

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REKIT OUR POLICE FORCE

Post  livefire on Sat Nov 10 2012, 18:30

Barely two months after being vocal elsewhere about the worrisome status of our civilian forces (GSU/AP) with regards to kitting, the worst has happened. As if TANA was never a lesson enough, the oversight bossess commandeering the police force have time and again let down the disciplined outfits. We need to re~kit the paramilitary wing appropriately, esp in bandit/rustle prone areas. The guys walk bila any body armor, no APC, just a G3. surely what do we expect autta such a situation?
DAILY NATION/STANDARD MEDIA statement release.AT LEAST 10 police officers feared dead, 20 wounded and 11 missing in Baragoi, Samburu County during fight with cattle rustlers.
What does this tell about our uniforms preparedness; i dont know what to blame, the training or the the kitting. Either way, the figures are damn too high man.Its high time the RBU/GSU recee units start utilizing there AML60/90/120 variants as escorts. A lorry by itself wont detter a determined rustler nevertheless protect the uniforms from harms way. They have been born and bred by the gun.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000070366
My 2cents.


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  MWAURA on Sat Nov 10 2012, 19:22

Sorry for diverting the thread! Nkash IIRC you said the Naijjas wanted to borrow your fireplan for the upcoming Mali OP. I think there was also the possibility of KDF specops. However it seems there are issues:
The "shocking" state of the Nigerian army has delayed plans for a military intervention in Mali, amid reports that it lacks the capability to fight on the frontline.
A
senior source in Mali told the Guardian that a lack of training and
discipline among Nigerian troops – who are being heavily relied on by
regional bloc Ecowas to oust Islamists in control of northern Mali – is
becoming increasingly apparent.
"The Nigerian army is in a
shocking state," said the source, who has seen recent assessments of
Ecowas's military capability. "In reality there is no way they are
capable of forward operations in Mali – their role is more likely to be
limited to manning checkpoints and loading trucks."
"The Nigerian
forces lack training and kit, so they simply don't have the capability
to carry out even basic military manoeuvres," the source added. "They
have poor discipline and support. They are more likely to play a
behind-the-scenes role in logistics and providing security."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/05/nigerian-army-mali-mission-delayed
While I generally don't rely too much on Anglo reports ,I've heard much the same from on the ground observers in W.Africa. What's your take?

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 11 2012, 15:04

@Mwaura

Not to throw rocks at a neighbour's glass house. But nothing is being invented anew in all current assessments of ECOMOG. Senegal has been "deploying" their 860men AMISOM Battalion for over a year and have still nothing beyond an advance party anywhere near Theater! Of the Brigade-size Troops pledged to AMISOM by ECOMOG, there but five Policemen and Military Liaison Officers from Cameron Senegal Nigeria and Ghana as well as Malawi and Zambia.

Now Europeans are taking about an enhanced/lead role on the Mali Mission -in numbers and functions. Can't blame them though it sticks in my african throat kidogo.

Are we likely to play any role in collaboration, greater than desk-jockeying, increasingly looks unlikely. Our SOCOM chaps that were sent up north soon after ECOMOG came through kDoD to peruse through the OLN book, came back not too happy about prospect for effective collaboration.

The French were also not masking their disquiet of being feeling crowded by prospects of an EAC collaboration with ECOMOG over MALI.

Meantime, the new Zoomaliya President shows tendencies of dictatorship. The Zoomaliya-component of an IGAD Planning Committee on the formation of Jubbaland was detained and placed under close arrest minutes after meeting him in an acrimnious session - the Ethiopia and Kenya members of the Committee allowed return to Nairobi. Make no mistake about it - IGAD is determined to push through the Jubbaland State. For obvious reason.

Finally that Kampala Reporter J. Kato is either an active member of TEA or a surreptitious visitor.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  livefire on Sun Nov 11 2012, 18:32

Figure revised upwards.
DAILY NATION press statement
POLICE DEATH toll in Samburu attacks rises to 23 after 12 more bodies are found scattered in bushes. Bodies to be flown to Nairobi on Monday.
Onkarei, are our paramilitaries doing ok kitting wise.
military analysis aside; i am at a loss here.
RIP comrades.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  mekatilili on Sun Nov 11 2012, 21:22

livefire wrote:Figure revised upwards.
DAILY NATION press statement
POLICE DEATH toll in Samburu attacks rises to 23 after 12 more bodies are found scattered in bushes. Bodies to be flown to Nairobi on Monday.
Onkarei, are our paramilitaries doing ok kitting wise.
military analysis aside; i am at a loss here.
RIP comrades.

How 26 + police officers are laid to waste beats me. It is simply astounding for a country that harbors regional ambitions. The cities are not safe and the rural areas are even worse. If Kenyans cannot maintain peace in the homeland all this talk of regional unity and spheres of influence is simply academic. It will send a tingle up your legs but is far from the reality!


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  proud kenyan on Sun Nov 11 2012, 22:07

mekatilili wrote:
livefire wrote:Figure revised upwards.
DAILY NATION press statement
POLICE DEATH toll in Samburu attacks rises to 23 after 12 more bodies are found scattered in bushes. Bodies to be flown to Nairobi on Monday.
Onkarei, are our paramilitaries doing ok kitting wise.
military analysis aside; i am at a loss here.
RIP comrades.

How 26 + police officers are laid to waste beats me. It is simply astounding for a country that harbors regional ambitions. The cities are not safe and the rural areas are even worse. If Kenyans can not maintain peace in the homeland all this talk of regional unity and spheres of influence is simply academic. It will send a tingle up your legs but is far from the reality!
as much as we are told about political influence in quelling such occurrences, i feel as though the police are too lax in everything they do,hence their death by the numbers. sometime back i suggested that the difference between the police and the military is that the military take every piece of intelligence seriously,since its the difference between their life and death.the police on the other hand rely on the fear they instil on an ordinary mwananchi,such that any mwananchi with a gun can challenge the police if they think they are more superior tactics-wise. i would suggest a serious retraining under some drill sergeants in disseminating intel and responding to the threats effectively as full deterrence. i feel as though the NSIS had given them some prior warning of what to expect,hence we should learn from what has happened and deploy in a smart way.
the UGABAG withdrawal storo,africa should come up and stand firm with M7, maybe even bring into place some way of funding the standby force and to some extent the AMISOM group altogether so that in future,funding for AMISOM ops is african as compared to the UN.maybe even in solidarity all african countries should ignore their obligation to the UN,maybe that sends the message across much more effectively.
on the by-lines, i thought that France would be abit more quieter with the exiting of the previos president,seems i was wrong.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Sierra Kilo on Sun Nov 11 2012, 22:51

proud kenyan wrote:
as much as we are told about political influence in quelling such occurrences, i feel as though the police are too lax in everything they do,hence their death by the numbers. sometime back i suggested that the difference between the police and the military is that the military take every piece of intelligence seriously,since its the difference between their life and death.the police on the other hand rely on the fear they instil on an ordinary mwananchi,such that any mwananchi with a gun can challenge the police if they think they are more superior tactics-wise. i would suggest a serious retraining under some drill sergeants in disseminating intel and responding to the threats effectively as full deterrence. i feel as though the NSIS had given them some prior warning of what to expect,hence we should learn from what has happened and deploy in a smart way.





The Suguta Valley has once again proved a death trap for our law enforcement officers. It is nothing but a smuck of negligence on the part of the commanding officers who sent poorly armed policemen to follow heavily armed rustlers in an area notoriously known for butchery against the police. It is time the mystery in this valley is resolved once and for all.

The valley is used as a hide-out by Pokot and Turkana cattle rustlers. It is considered a "no go" region by the police due to the extremely harsh environment and familiarity of the rustlers with the terrain - Wikipedia

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  HokumA on Mon Nov 12 2012, 08:59

Some of those who have commented on the Baragoi maneno seem to insinuate that the police had this coming and that it was because of their incompetence that this happened. Most of those pushing this theorem have minimal or no background info on this matter, it’s a dang shame that even with no intel some of you have the guts to criticize the Men involved in the operation. For your information some KDF-Army were involved in the chase and some lost their dear life. So please let’s show support to the fallen HEROES Men who put their lives on the line just to ensure that fellow Kenyans have a right to property (those were not their cattle), that should count for something op failure notwithstanding.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 12 2012, 09:06

[quote="Sierra Kilo"][quote="proud kenyan"]

The Suguta Valley has once again proved a death trap for our law enforcement officers. It is nothing but a smuck of negligence on the part of the commanding officers who sent poorly armed policemen to follow heavily armed rustlers in an area notoriously known for butchery against the police. It is time the mystery in this valley is resolved once and for all.

I am still wondering what kind of weaponry the bandits are using.there has to be a serious dis-armament exercise in all these areas it's now too much.do the bandits have machine guns or even worse?


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Analyst on Mon Nov 12 2012, 09:31

It is absolutely shameful, regardless of their deaths, that 28 police officers can be way laid and slaughtered.
Again the police, as usual riddled by corruption and sheer incompetence have exemplified how incapable they are in providing internal security for the republic of Kenya.
Every security operation requires thorough planning besides adequate risk mitigation to ensure success and safety of those deployed.
Suguta is not Kismayu or Afghanistan..it is in Kenya.
It's geography should not be an excuse rather a pointer that it should be properly documented and intelligence gathered to ensure such issues do not arise.
28 officers down in a day is incredibly petrifying.
This is sheer incompetence
@Hokum..if KDF officers were involved why didn't they request aerial cover. The MD500 can comb the terrain.
The catastrophic ramifications of this operation only reflect an uncoordinated operation and poor planning.
What formation were they using to cover each other?
Did they study the geography of the terrain to ensure they had tactical advantage?
This reminds of the botched operation in Buruburu where 1100 bullets were wasted by 100 police officers.

















Did they study the geography of Digits


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  mogen on Mon Nov 12 2012, 09:42

HokumA wrote:Some of those who have commented on the Baragoi maneno seem to insinuate that the police had this coming and that it was because of their incompetence that this happened. Most of those pushing this theorem have minimal or no background info on this matter, it’s a dang shame that even with no intel some of you have the guts to criticize the Men involved in the operation. For your information some KDF-Army were involved in the chase and some lost their dear life. So please let’s show support to the fallen HEROES Men who put their lives on the line just to ensure that fellow Kenyans have a right to property (those were not their cattle), that should count for something op failure notwithstanding.

@HokumA
Agreed. Let us give honour to our fallen heroes in spite of the apparent operational failures. Air cover would have made a hell of a difference.

Surprised to learn that KDF Army personnel were involved and some lost their lives. The KDF chaps are known to be damn good at their job. Surprised they were overcome by the armed rustlers/bandits. No doubt, something will give. In fact, the loged-for resolution of the Suguta Valley/Baragoi problem may have now been brought forward by the atrocious actions of those brigands.

RIP our fallen brothers.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Spartan on Mon Nov 12 2012, 10:05

mogen wrote:@HokumA
Agreed. Let us give honour to our fallen heroes in spite of the apparent operational failures. Air cover would have made a hell of a difference.

Surprised to learn that KDF Army personnel were involved and some lost their lives. The KDF chaps are known to be damn good at their job. Surprised they were overcome by the armed rustlers/bandits. No doubt, something will give. In fact, the loged-for resolution of the Suguta Valley/Baragoi problem may have now been brought forward by the atrocious actions of those brigands.

RIP our fallen brothers.

Sorry to learn of the loss of lives. Cattle rustlers are a big problem even in the East of Uganda and use military-style tactics like ambushes. The police here don't even try, they call in the army straight away. They've killed many troops in recent years.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Al Bashir on Mon Nov 12 2012, 10:53

Analyst wrote:
@Hokum..if KDF officers were involved why didn't they request aerial cover. The MD500 can comb the terrain.
The catastrophic ramifications of this operation only reflect an uncoordinated operation and poor planning.
What formation were they using to cover each other?
Did they study the geography of the terrain to ensure they had tactical advantage?
This reminds of the botched operation in Buruburu where 1100 bullets were wasted by 100 police officers.

@Analyst let the fallen comrades depart in peace without rubbishing them. There are many unknowns at this point. That the Kenya police service is severely under trained and ill equipped is no news but suggesting aerial bombardment during a law enforcement exercise borders on the absurd if not laughable. Not even the Mexican forces who have been battling hard line drug cartels for 6 years(with 2,000 officers KIA) have ever resulted into bombing civilians. Maybe Bashar al-Assad may find this as a practical solution

And yes KDF MD-500's were involved in this operation but it's not clear whether this is before or after:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxe4s2dEfCA&feature=player_embedded


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  mogen on Mon Nov 12 2012, 11:09

Analyst wrote:It is absolutely shameful, regardless of their deaths, that 28 police officers can be way laid and slaughtered.
Again the police, as usual riddled by corruption and sheer incompetence have exemplified how incapable they are in providing internal security for the republic of Kenya.
Every security operation requires thorough planning besides adequate risk mitigation to ensure success and safety of those deployed.
Suguta is not Kismayu or Afghanistan..it is in Kenya.
It's geography should not be an excuse rather a pointer that it should be properly documented and intelligence gathered to ensure such issues do not arise.
28 officers down in a day is incredibly petrifying.
This is sheer incompetence
@Hokum..if KDF officers were involved why didn't they request aerial cover. The MD500 can comb the terrain.
What formation were they using to cover each other?
Did they study the geography of Digits

While we mourn our fallen brothers we must reflect on what went wrong and why. Otherwise we will have another loss in the not-too-distant future.

The best way to pursue those brigands would have been on land and on air. The ambush may have been thwarted and all of them + their illegal weapons apprehended. The commanders know exactly what went wrong and where as well as their deployment shortcomings. Details that we may never get to know.

Truth be told. The Kenya Police is no doubt the weakest link in our national security chain. Their performance is a letdown we can ill afford at such perilous times as now. That's why Police reform is now more urgent than ever before. And, more importantly the reforms must usher in a complete paradigm shift in policing. The laissez–faire attitude prevalent in the force must change and policing given the seriousness it deserves. I shudder to imagine a scene where two officers are assigned to guard worshippers in a Garrisa church but they choose to sit down, one comfy reading a newspaper and the other busy with something else, and then, bang they are both felled by attackers who fire at them from the Church gate. Surely, being on guard should mean something to our boys in blue. Aish, they are up against armed brigands who are ready to kill and he who blinks first gets the bullet.

Now, another worrying situation. I had a deep conversation with a very informed chap from South Sudan. He is a former soldier who has lived in Khartoum, Cairo, Addis Ababa and Nairobi over the last 20yrs.

This was his damning assessment:
The man reckons that Kenya is the most insecure country in Africa outside of West Africa, South Africa and current Libya. He said, in Khartoum or Cairo you can carry $1million in a car and drive to the bank with it without worrying about carjackers/violent robbers. Ditto for Addis. Not so for Nairobi and other Kenyan towns. Somehow, someone will be tipped and you will find them waiting for you at some blind bend on the road. Cash on transit is often stolen with some police officers killed in the process usually following a tip off. Policing in Kenya, he says, is hopelessly inefficient and is in fact one of the greatest threats to the country's national security. He says, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, Mozambique, Malawi, Botswana, Namibia even Angola have no where near Kenya's internal security problems.

His explanation:
Kenya Police is corrupt and inept, perhaps the worst in the region. From recruitment to deployment and promotion corruption is unbridled and runs through their blood vessels. Relatives are recruited and deployed to tasks they are ill-motivatd to perform and they don't perform. However, they can't be disciplined because of godfathers high up the ranks....He went on to detail incidences of police corruption that he has witnessed in Kenya and left me thoroughly embarrassed, if not ashamed.

IMHO
The guy had his finger on the pulse. Our police force must style up or reform.
Kenya Police officers at graduation
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x3g_HhCQ8EY/UAk586jzUxI/AAAAAAAAasU/F0XWkgs6OjY/s1600/kenya-police.jpg

A Kenya Police officer, years after graduation
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x3g_HhCQ8EY/UAk586jzUxI/AAAAAAAAasU/F0XWkgs6OjY/s1600/kenya-police.jpg
Issues of physical fitness are compounded by the nauseating corruption. These two vices are causing us loss of live and limb.

A most worrying scenario. An al shabaab agent is sent from Kismayo with $4000 'spending money', suicide vest, weapons etc. Travels to Dadaab where he stays for a few days then hires a rickety-looking taxi and heads for Nairobi via Garissa. Along the way, he has to go through at least 3 major checkpoints manned by a combined force of regular police and GSU. Nevertheless, the brigand passes thro' with his deadly cargo as his $4000 spending money does the talking and softening of security cordons. He finally gets to Nairobi and if he manages to do his thing several people, including other police officers., are killed. A police officer aids a criminal who goes on to cause death or injury of other police officers!! Yes, that's how low their work ethic and professionalism has sunk. To stand on the road and ask the conductor of overloaded and speeding PSV is like breathing oxygen. Something has to give and the need could not be more urgent.



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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  mogen on Mon Nov 12 2012, 11:52

HokumA wrote:Some of those who have commented on the Baragoi maneno seem to insinuate that the police had this coming and that it was because of their incompetence that this happened. Most of those pushing this theorem have minimal or no background info on this matter, it’s a dang shame that even with no intel some of you have the guts to criticize the Men involved in the operation. For your information some KDF-Army were involved in the chase and some lost their dear life. So please let’s show support to the fallen HEROES Men who put their lives on the line just to ensure that fellow Kenyans have a right to property (those were not their cattle), that should count for something op failure notwithstanding.

@HokumA
According to the clip here http://youtu.be/Fxe4s2dEfCA only the Kenya Police, AP, Anti-Stock Theft unit, GSU and Police Reservists were involved. No KDF personnel or air cover is mentioned. Elsewhere, someone has suggested either the GSU, ASTU or KDF should acquire that valley/area and turn it into a training camp.

KTN wrote:30 policemen have been confirmed dead following an ambush by bandits in Baragoi area in Samburu North district. 19 bodies were found today in addition to 11 bodies recovered yesterday. The team of security officers comprising of the Kenya police, administration police, general service unit, the anti-stock theft unit and the Kenya police reservists, was attacked at 4 AM as the team was attempted to recover stolen livestock. The number of people who have died in Samburu north as a result of cattle rustling now stands at 43.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  Ole Sidai on Mon Nov 12 2012, 13:46

@HokumA
According to the clip here http://youtu.be/Fxe4s2dEfCA only the Kenya Police, AP, Anti-Stock Theft unit, GSU and Police Reservists were involved. No KDF personnel or air cover is mentioned. Elsewhere, someone has suggested either the GSU, ASTU or KDF should acquire that valley/area and turn it into a training camp.

Damn it!! They have done it again. It makes me sick to the stomach. After the loss of MD 500 in the same valley in early 2000, plans were mooted for company size detachment, 6 months rotational in the general area. This could act as rapid reaction force to deny bandits access into the valley. A point to note is that the valley acts as transit point from East to West. Timely intercept/block to key entiry points into the valley denies them GTI. Bargoni,Bodhei,Kiunga were similar hot spots in the early 90s until similar solution....and now Manda base.

2ndly, we need to introduce modern ranching methods and animal branding in Kenyana. Animal quality and not quantity should be empasized both by GOK and private enterprise. Grazing areas are deminishing whereas demand for nyama choma goes up just like human population. And,can anyone explore GPS chips branding systems in livestock? (Considering costs and radioactive) If KWS can use it to track elephants, so do ranchers. Precise knowledge of where these animals are and movement can be vital in tactical deployment. Rem, follow the footsteps and you get ambushed....and these chaps are good at that. They even blow whistles like its a football match. My Heart out to the lost souls and their families.


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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

Post  HokumA on Mon Nov 12 2012, 14:14

mogen wrote:@HokumA
According to the clip here http://youtu.be/Fxe4s2dEfCA only the Kenya Police, AP, Anti-Stock Theft unit, GSU and Police Reservists were involved. No KDF personnel or air cover is mentioned. Elsewhere, someone has suggested either the GSU, ASTU or KDF should acquire that valley/area and turn it into a training camp.

There were KDF boots involved in the chase I have rock solid intel on that, media people can only tell the story like it was told to them.

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Re: Kenya Defence Forces (KDF)

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